Methylation Protocol depletes Zinc?

[droit]

Per my previous posts, I've taken a Methylation Pathway Panel, which showed a classical methylation block as described by RichVank - depleted GSH, high GSSG, low SAMe, etc.

I had a Spectracell vitamin and mineral test before starting the SMP and one just recently, a year after starting the SMP.

If you've never heard of Spectracell, its more of a functional test than a serum level test. They take your cells and grow them in media that is specifically deficient in one vitamin/mineral at a time and see how your cells grow.

In the first test, I was deficient (totally in the red) in all B-vitamins. This result is what drove me find the Methylation Pathway Panel and this forum.

In the second test mostly everything came up, all the B-vitamins, etc.

Couple of interesting unexpected changes: my Zinc went from very normal to very deficient. Also Magnesium and Vitamin A went from very high to borderline.

I'm trying to understand what would deplete specifically Zinc so much. Its been in normal levels in my multi for the past year.

Zinc is a co-factor superoxide dismutase. It's possible that the glutathione systems are ramping up and using up the Zinc? My Copper levels didn't change.

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

 

[adreno]

No tests done, but anecdotally I have needed much more zinc while on methylation supps.

 

[droit]

I'll be interested in hearing more about why the above happens, but @adreno - what symptoms are going on that makes you feel like you need more Zinc?

 

[helen1]

At the risk of speaking for him, Freddd has noticed this pattern of zinc decreasing in quite a few people on methylation plans. He recommends titrating to 60 mg/day if this appears to be happening.

 

[adreno]

I'll be interested in hearing more about why the above happens, but @adreno - what symptoms are going on that makes you feel like you need more Zinc?

Fatigue, acne, low libido, dry skin, insomnia, perhaps more, can't remember. Excessive aromatization.

 

[oh_noes]

I've been taking 200% RDA zinc picolinate and 100% RDA copper for several years, but never got tested to check my levels.

Since beginning on Amy Yasko's protocol nearly 8 months ago, my urine tests indicate a zinc deficiency. I'm not sure if this is a true reflection, as I was only on Step 1 of the protocol, so am unsure if any of the methylation cycle had begun functioning properly. Add to this, that according to the same test, I am also anemic in iron and copper, and magensium (despite taking 200-300% RDA daily). I'm also low in zinc binding aminos, and high in homocysteine.

I have the same symptoms as @adreno . I'm currently on 200% RDA zinc picolinate, and 220% RDA copper. I'm going to have to have hair, blood and urine metals tests to see if upping the copper will yield positive results.

Not sure if that's of any help, but thought I'd put it out there anyway.

 

[droit]

Fatigue, acne, low libido, dry skin, insomnia, perhaps more, can't remember. Excessive aromatization.

I can totally identify with the dry skin, fatigue and insomnia. But how do we know these symptoms are related to Zinc depletion?

@Andeno, do these symptoms resolve when specifically taking Zinc?

 

[adreno]

I can totally identify with the dry skin, fatigue and insomnia. But how do we know these symptoms are related to Zinc depletion?

They are symptoms of zinc defiency.

@Andeno, do these symptoms resolve when specifically taking Zinc?

Not really. But they improve.

 

[Calathea]

I'm sort of on a basic methylation protocol: 5mg mB12, 400mcg methyl folate, lecithin etc. I think I'm doing better now I've split up my minerals and am taking better quality. Should I double the zinc plus trace minerals one? I'm a small woman in my thirties, if that helps, and have had terrible dry skin arond my mouth lately.

 

[dannybex]

I can totally identify with the dry skin, fatigue and insomnia. But how do we know these symptoms are related to Zinc depletion?

My guess is at least the first 2 may be a direct result, with the latter perhaps suggesting the zinc/copper ratio has been affected…making copper too high in relation to zinc.

Re the Spectracell test: I had it done a couple years ago and was quite puzzled by the results. I was officially deficient in zinc (which was kind of confirmed by doing a zinc tally (taste) test), and also vitamin D.

But my pantothenic acid levels were high, despite not taking any B5 for years, as was my vitamin C. And not only had I not taken any vitamin c in years, but hadn't eaten much fresh fruit. And more importantly, I had the classic signs of scurvy, or sub-clinical scurvy, including bleeding gums and especially corkscrew hairs on my legs.

The test also said my "Immunidex" (i.e. immune function) was in great shape, and that I had high levels of glutathione, neither of which are true, unless they mean oxidized glutathione.

So I'm not sure how accurate the Spectracell test is...

 

[Calathea]

So what copper-zinc ratio is ideal? The supplement I'm on has 20mg of OptiZinc to 2mg of copper glycinate, which seems to be a good ratio from what I've read. I'm guessing that if I took two capsules, it'd still be a good ratio so I'd be OK. I'm on meds which deplete my stomach acid and am wondering if I need to increase my minerals as a result.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I have read zinc/copper ratios of 8:1 and 15:1 recommended. When I asked my dietician which would be appropriate under what conditions, she was no help.

Zinc depletes copper, so they are often take together. Zinc and copper deplete iron. Never take supplemental iron unless you have tested low.