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B-12 - The Hidden Story

B

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
lefti2003 said:
Hi,
I am new to this forum. I am b12 deficient in 12-2009 I had a b12/folate read of 382/15.6. Then in 4-2013 it was 487/19.5. My potassium in 6-2012 was 4.5 and in 08-2013 it was 4.6. I tried the methylb12 1000mcg (Jarrow sublingual). The first day 12-19-2013 I took only about 1/4 under my tongue. The second day I cut it into 4 pieces and took 8 pieces throughout the day so 2000 mcg. I was on vacation at this time. The third day I only took about 4 pieces totaling 1000 mcg. The last day 12-22-2013 I just took one piece 250 mcg. On the third day I did notice some muscle spasms and ate a few figs/ cashews. That seemed to stop them. Later when I was able to get to a vitamin store I did take a few 100mg doses of potassium. I stopped the treatment since I was out of town at the time and wanted to be closer to home. So on 12-25-13 I took a multivitamin Source naturals. They say to take 2-4 a day. The first day I took 1. The second day 12-26-13 I took two. I felt a little nausea. I stopped. The next day 12-27-13 I took a New chapter multivitamin which has much smaller doses then the source naturals. I also took a 1000 mg vitamin C. I had some nausea again it lasted an hour or so. Then 12-28-13 I had some nausea close to lunch time. Last night 12-29-13 I had a horrible case of nausea. I could not sleep. I am wondering if it is some bad food, a bug or something from the vitamins I have been taking. I know I did not drink that much water while taking them either. Oh somewhere in those last 3 days I also took 1 capsule of the Thorne b-12 which has 300mcg each of methylb12 and adlb12. The last couple of days I have also been having some muscle spasms. For the last month or so I have also been taking vitamin d-3(2000-3000IU/day) and fish oil.

I stopped everything to flush my system and am seeking a ND to do the right thing for me. Help me look into my blood work and go from there. Any advice on the nausea and muscle spasms?

Thanks,
Lefti
Click to expand...
Hi Lefti

If you write @+Freddd (3 D's) you will get a reply.
 
ahmo

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@girlfromeurope, 500mg potassium is not a high dose, fine to take at one time. However, you might benefit by, eg., AM and PM doses. Potassium tablets are legally only 99mg, since in this form they can irritate stomach. Powders, as K+ gluconate or citrate, allow much larger doses. cheers, ahmo
 
K

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
Does it matter what order we take the supplements throughout the day?

And how much gap should be left between taking them?
 
Last edited:
howirecovered

howirecovered

Senior Member
Messages
167
knackers323 said:
Does it matter what order we take the supplements throughout the day?

And how much gap should be left between taking them?
Click to expand...

I think it does - I take folate on an empty stomach upon waking and my B12 throughout the day. The B12 seems to accumulate during the day so I have the greatest startup effects in the evening. I take niacin at bedtime which temps down methylation and allows me to sleep better.

this is probably very individual however, not everyone is going to react the same way, so probably something you have to discover for yourself.

I also take the carnitine half an hour before meals and no potassium with folate.
 
K

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
Is it only the b12 s that should be taken sublingually?

Is there a maximum of how much the body can absorb per day of these supplements?

I can seem to handle any dose so far without adverse effect so figure I may as well take as much as is beneficial without wasting anything.

Anyone else teeth hurt from the sublingual b12s? Is this damaging the enamel or teeth in any way?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
ahmo

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Hi knackers. Yes, just the B12 sublingula (sub-buccal), as far as I know. The question might be not, how much can the body absorb, but how much do I need to relieve symptoms. Somehow there needs to be a blance between the B12 and the folate, not necessarily equivalent, but some relationship to avoid methyl-trapping or insufficiency. And my last communication w/ Fredd, he recommended something like a 1:1 relationship with MethylB12 and AdB12.Freddd advised someone else complaining about tooth sensitivity to try Sensodyne toothpaste. I don't know if it can actually damage teeth or gums. I've been very relieved to not feel anything negative in my mouth. I also haven't had any other negative reaction to the sugar, which is not a good food on my diet. whew. I am doing sooo good on this protocol. I just had family visitors for 2 days, including a 4 yo. I'm generally a recluse. And I felt fine after they left. No tremulousness either in my muscles or internally. My nervous system is calmer than it's been in my life, I'm more relaxed. Freddd cautioned me to not confuse healing with rehabilitation, that it'll take maybe a year to rehabilitate. Yay! Only a year! And I feel this good already, 9 months into the protocol. cheers, ahmo
 
A

Aaric

Messages
2
Just some observations and experiences that might be usefull for others.

I recently went on a ketogenic diet (no carb) and the startup effects from mb12 that had gone away (as well as obvious day to day improvements) suddenly reemerged at least 3 x as strong as when I took my first mb12 tablet. I have some degree of insulin resistance (IR) which is the reason I went on the diet. The IR means that even after relatively low carb meals by body is flush with insulin. Is there any indication that insulin hampers mb12/methylation and if so could high insulin/insulin resistance be a contributing factor to developing deficiensies?

Other stuff; I have virtually no effect at all from Enzymatic Therapy's mb12 or Source's ad12.

I use AOR's 15 mg tablet and kirkland powder for mb12 and the anabol labs dibencozide (amazing).

http://www.detoxpeople.eu/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2919
http://www.detoxpeople.eu/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1198
http://www.detoxpeople.eu/index.php?l=product_detail&p=892

Also eating liver meatballs (have a good recipe that takes away the taste ;) blows me away every morning. Brightning effect like you wouldn't believe! Beats all the tablets hands down.
 
L

lefti2003

Messages
26
@Freddd I am looking for a multi vitamin to incorporate in the protocol that you recommend, instead of taking A, Cal/Mag alone. I found Basic Nutrients V (without iron and iodine ) from Thornes Research here. I was thinking to take this (5 capsules which would give 12,500IU vitamin A). It also has the two active forms of B12 you discuss adensylb12 and methylb12 (400mcg for 6 capsules). It has 1mg Folate as Folate (500 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 500 mcg as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 1 mg. It has Choline but no Paba and No Inositol. I would also take 1 B Right instead of the two. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Lefti
 
L

lefti2003

Messages
26
@Freddd You mentioned in one of your posts that you began to see your platelet count go up. I was curious what your score was before you started the protocol. My platelet scores for the last few years have swayed between 102k-125k/uL. I am not sure how they were when I was a kid. How long did it take for you to see these go up to a healthy level? I started losing my hair at a young age around 17. I noticed after a couple of weeks of slowly working to 1mg methyl b12 my hair is growing fast and I have hair in spots where I did not think I had and it is thicker and stronger. I am trying to work to a 5mg methyl b12 through out the day. Next week I will hopefully begin the Week 1 protocol. I have identified around 25 symptoms from your matrix.

Thanks,
Lefti
 
F

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
ahmo said:
Hi knackers. Yes, just the B12 sublingula (sub-buccal), as far as I know. The question might be not, how much can the body absorb, but how much do I need to relieve symptoms. Somehow there needs to be a blance between the B12 and the folate, not necessarily equivalent, but some relationship to avoid methyl-trapping or insufficiency. And my last communication w/ Fredd, he recommended something like a 1:1 relationship with MethylB12 and AdB12.Freddd advised someone else complaining about tooth sensitivity to try Sensodyne toothpaste. I don't know if it can actually damage teeth or gums. I've been very relieved to not feel anything negative in my mouth. I also haven't had any other negative reaction to the sugar, which is not a good food on my diet. whew. I am doing sooo good on this protocol. I just had family visitors for 2 days, including a 4 yo. I'm generally a recluse. And I felt fine after they left. No tremulousness either in my muscles or internally. My nervous system is calmer than it's been in my life, I'm more relaxed. Freddd cautioned me to not confuse healing with rehabilitation, that it'll take maybe a year to rehabilitate. Yay! Only a year! And I feel this good already, 9 months into the protocol. cheers, ahmo
Click to expand...


Hi Ahmo,

Yes a year of healing before being up to starting rehabilitation and then several years of rehabilitation. Gald to hear you doing well.
 
F

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
lefti2003 said:
@Freddd You mentioned in one of your posts that you began to see your platelet count go up. I was curious what your score was before you started the protocol. My platelet scores for the last few years have swayed between 102k-125k/uL. I am not sure how they were when I was a kid. How long did it take for you to see these go up to a healthy level? I started losing my hair at a young age around 17. I noticed after a couple of weeks of slowly working to 1mg methyl b12 my hair is growing fast and I have hair in spots where I did not think I had and it is thicker and stronger. I am trying to work to a 5mg methyl b12 through out the day. Next week I will hopefully begin the Week 1 protocol. I have identified around 25 symptoms from your matrix.

Thanks,
Lefti
Click to expand...

Hi Lefti,

I don't know the numbers. I was asked by lots of docs if I had difficulty clotting. Once you get all the required for healing that "level" (blood) it takes about 6 months for the blood to normalize. My hair and nails picked up each time I started one of the deadlock quartet. I grew hair in places that had been neuropathicly slick for decades, not much but it improved, and much faster growth. My nails had ridges dating from each startup. Good health to you. Be aware that with increased cell formation comes increased need for potassium.
 
F

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
lefti2003 said:
@Freddd I am looking for a multi vitamin to incorporate in the protocol that you recommend, instead of taking A, Cal/Mag alone. I found Basic Nutrients V (without iron and iodine ) from Thornes Research here. I was thinking to take this (5 capsules which would give 12,500IU vitamin A). It also has the two active forms of B12 you discuss adensylb12 and methylb12 (400mcg for 6 capsules). It has 1mg Folate as Folate (500 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 500 mcg as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 1 mg. It has Choline but no Paba and No Inositol. I would also take 1 B Right instead of the two. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Lefti
Click to expand...

Hi Lefti,

Calcium folinate is folinic acid in a different dress. If you have paradoxical folate deficiency it will prevent any real progress as it can block 20x as much methylfolate. You need to get that out of your diet until you have tried ONLY methylfolate as the only folate you take. The only way to know is symptoms and trials, sometimes repeated switching every 2 weeks until you know what turning healing on and off is like, if it happens.
 
K

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
Then keeping these in the mouth for hours at a time has to be pretty bad for our teeth. Mine hurt every time i take a dose of the b12s. It would be good if we could find one that is unsweetened.
 
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