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Navy sailors have radiation sickness after Japan rescue 12/22/13 NY Post

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
Messages
3,043
Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
Like Chernobyl, they and we were actually "lucky", because it was mostly just the gaseous secondary products, not the reactor metals
There's high risk of the STILL MOLTEN runaway cores in two maybe three reactors, and the spent fuel pools, blowing up

technically it should be nearly impossible to have a true nuclear dentation, as to make a bomb is incredibly difficult, takes precise compression and neutron release
but we've never had this kind of mess...still should be extremely low

but doesn't matter, when you have hundreds or thousands of tons of white hot metal, it can cause a steam explosion with the force of a small nuke, several kilotons
that will burst the reactor metals and all other materials, throwing it miles into the air as dust, and kill everyone downwind for hundreds of miles
NOT death by cancer etc year slater, but death within a few weeks or days, very ghastly death.

and unlike these mostly short lives gases foorm original event, the core materials will be deadly forever as far as Human Beings are concerned. It will wipe out much of Japan short of a miracle and even then it will probably kill all the way to Hawaii and maybe the West Coast..

see, they lie to us
Chernobyl and this mess have had prompt criticalities, chain reactions that fizzled (as said making a true runaway chain reaction is extremely hard)
so the cores have been spewing out neutrons for last two years, every damn thing around them will be radioactive as hellfire.
it only took a few kilos of radiated material to kill many thousands at Nagasaki and Hiroshima, as most went high into the sky and decayed/fell into sea before harming folk though stray dust particles from that will still be killing kids with cancer (a few ever year like all the damn bomb tests)

a reactor burst though...
I posted this elsewhere but it has ot be understood how lethal this crap is
thisis about the fourth atomic bomb tests, the stupid idiots set it off in bikini lagoon underwater, where it radiated coral and the landing craft above it, and salt in the sea, making it a dirty bomb:

"On August 11, 1947, Life summarized the report in a 14-page article with 33 pictures.[153] The article stated, "If all the ships at Bikini had been fully manned, the Baker Day bomb would have killed 35,000 crewmen.
If such a bomb were dropped below New York's Battery in a stiff south wind, 2 million people would die."

Two million not because of the force of the bomb, no, underwater detonation of old fashioned A bomb would massively limit the blast and fire damage, but the fallout would be horrendous
but if you detonated such a bomb along with a lot of metals and some elements, or worse, a civilian nuclear reactor with thousands of tons of material....


I wonder if the US military will claim their illnesses are all "hysteria", eh?
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
My understanding is that those sailors not only have serious radiation problems, but something like half have secondary cancer already. Further, country after country turned them away as the ship was contaminated. These were people injured in the process of performing humanitarian aid. How humanitarian is it to deny them leave to weigh anchor and have them ferried onshore for medical treatment? Precautions could have been taken. How many countries, including Australia, have either medical ships or the ability to deploy ships with medical teams? Where were they, and what they were doing?

They had a sophisticated radiation detection system too, but it was not turned on. WTF? Is this right?
 

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
Messages
3,043
Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
Alex
one problem that folk do not get, just like foolish slavish adherence to other stuff, is that dosimeters are almost useless for certain types of radiation
to whit, alpha emitters
ingested alpha emitters like plutonium and polonium will blow the crap out of your cells, but barely if at all show up on a dosimeter
Because alpha particles are stopped by even a few millimetres of air, never mind plastic or clothing.
If ingested and gets into cells though...

alpha particles are kind of like shotguns, enormous damage but extremely short range.
gamma rays are like lasers, can punch through things, extremely fine, and incredible range but so small they do little damage so takes a lot of them to actually hit anything "vital"
beta particles pack a lot of wallop and are mid ranged, few metres of air, heavy clothing can stop much of them/lower end of scale.

neutron radiation only comes from reactors and detonating bombs but is exceptionally nasty as it can convert wlements into different isotopes, some of which will be radioactive (varies greatly, some are easily made/deadly, others are mostly harmless. Iron is generally harmless but altered so structural members weaken as the chemical bonds are altered as well, hence need for special materials and checks in reactor cores)

from wiki
When alpha particle emitting isotopes are ingested, they are far more dangerous than their half-life or decay rate would suggest, due to the high relative biological effectiveness of alpha radiation to cause biological damage, after alpha-emitting radioisotopes enter living cells. Ingested alpha emitter radioisotopes (such as transuranics or actinides) are an average of about 20 times more dangerous, and in some experiments up to 1000 times more dangerous, than an equivalent activity of beta emitting or gamma emitting radioisotopes
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
@SilverbladeTE, apparently a major aircraft carrier has some serious radiation detection gear. I suspect its classified though, I don't know details. So I don't know what they might have detected, but given the radiation soup they were in I suspect whatever they had would have been sounding alarms, if only it were turned on. I think next time this mistake wont happen.

Of course this is based on limited testimony, so we don't know the full facts. Maybe the facts will come out during the court cases.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
PS Our poor service people who went right into this crap and now this crap is spreading around the globe! And most gov't say it's all ok, right?

Anything BIG and a big problem, expect it to be played down by the goverments!!!

umm I guess that means that ME/CFS is considered a big problem too.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
My understanding is that those sailors not only have serious radiation problems, but something like half have secondary cancer already. Further, country after country turned them away as the ship was contaminated. These were people injured in the process of performing humanitarian aid. How humanitarian is it to deny them leave to weigh anchor and have them ferried onshore for medical treatment? Precautions could have been taken. How many countries, including Australia, have either medical ships or the ability to deploy ships with medical teams? Where were they, and what they were doing?

They had a sophisticated radiation detection system too, but it was not turned on. WTF? Is this right?

I guess this case shows up that our govs arent as confident at dealing with radiation etc as they would like us all to think.
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
The way I see it is that worst case scenarios where everything that can go wrong will go wrong is inevitable when humans (error) is involved.

It's kind of like road fatalities. In our minds, they aren't going to happen, but they do. Planners need to assume that any and all errors can and will happen.
 

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
Messages
3,043
Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
The way I see it is that worst case scenarios where everything that can go wrong will go wrong is inevitable when humans (error) is involved.

It's kind of like road fatalities. In our minds, they aren't going to happen, but they do. Planners need to assume that any and all errors can and will happen.

1) As I keep banging on about, we humans suck in groups, those in charge NEVER want to hear the "bad" stuff they always spin it to their way of thinking...

2) "Bean counting" is a stupid way to run things, because it doesn't take account of the realities or changeability's
~A mathematical chance doesn't care if it gets wiped out...
~What we know today is often found out ot be in error tomorrow
~Cities etc last for centuries, and over such times, variables change a lot.

Larger part of my town is about 400 years old, but core is around 1100 years old
Areas in the Middle East were settled 5000+ years ago
The costs and numbers of disasters over those time scale are enormous.

Scumbags here built a steelwork beside the town with no safety, because they wanted cheap steel NOW, and to hell with the consequences, as always "the ends justify the means" to such assholes
result is area for several miles and severa hundred thousand people dosed with heavy metals over that time period, and also, radium from a clockwork factory and the lies lies lies they told to keep it shut up.