The Fight is on...Imperial College XMRV Study

[anne]

I'm very willing to believe that our illness can be exacerbated by our beliefs; in fact I'm sure that's true - at least in my case - but I can't believe it causes it.

Man, Cort, I wish you would be careful about stuff like this.

 

[Robin]

Yeah Robin,

the notes are probably locked away in his private study with the details of the patient cohorts form the Imperial study.

Along with his nefarious plans for world domination?

 

[flex]

Robin,

He is currently building a LAAzoor Machine to hold us all to ransom for..... 1 MILLION dollars!!!!!

And his mini me is Niles Krane from Frazior.

 

[Alexia]

I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about Simon Wesselys childhood. His mother etc - was she ill

That's a good question.. once I read that the doctor who couldn't cure Hitler's mother from cancer was a Jew.. Hitler was 18 years old then. I read that he blamed the doctor for her death..

 

[Countrygirl]

Award for outstanding services to C.F.S. patients

I am having a fit of the vapours.......!!!!


Have just read that Professor Simon Wessely has been give a MEDAL by the Royal College of Physicians for his outstanding work in the field of C.F.S. :Sign Please:



Someone pass me the smelling salts..........:tear:


I think I have read that before, but had forgotton about it.

 

[Countrygirl]

CFS is not M.E. - Simon says

A little nugget,,,,,,,quoting Prof.S.W. ' ......C.F.S. is not very common, believing you have M.E. is very rare, AND THE TWO RARELY OVERLAP' ????????? Is this saying that he believes they are almost entirely different conditions????

Underneath the quote from a speech he made in 1994 is the handwritten note 'not for circulation'.

Make of it what you will.



The quote comes from the talk/paper entitled Microbes, Mental Illness, the Media, and M.E.:The Construction of Disease.

 

[Advocate]

I think it was in one of these 4 horrific training videos for UK medical staff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvArXvqAMiA

Thanks, Min. I watched it last night and made notes, and will report on it later today.

 

[Advocate]

Advocate was on one of these videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvArXvqAMiA

Thanks, Flybro. I watched it, and will report on it later today.

 

[Alice Band]

Simon Wessely's Father was one of the jewish children evacuated to Britain as part of the Kinder Transport program before or during the 2nd world war. He (Wessely senior) was once did a radio or tv prog on that (so long ago I can't remember which).

There is a link to a longer interview with him on this website but my brain is so bad today I cannot read it

http://www.kindertransport.org/news.aspx

Professor on the frontline in fight to explain casualties of war

Simon Wessely is an internationally renowned expert on Gulf War illnesses.Director of the King's Centre for Military Health Research, his team's work has influenced policy on the health of British armed forces.

"I've never made a secret of the fact that I greatly admire our armed services and feel we don't value them enough.Those feelings have no doubt been influenced by my father's background."As a teenager his dad travelled on the Kindertransport from Prague to Britain to escape the Nazis.

 

[Mithriel]

I have been ill for over forty years now. In that time, as in anyone's life I had had periods of extreme stress.

I can state categorically that stress has never had any effect on my symptoms. In fact, like many people with ME I find that a sudden stress can make my symptoms less, though I will suffer for it later.

All my symptoms worsen on EXERCISE. The more I do the worse I get simple as that. The effort could be dealing with something worrying or distressing or be having good fun with friends but it is exactly the same payback for exactly the same amount of movement.

Mithriel, I think you answer thss youself actually, but EXERCISE is stress. My own experience is that there's little difference between physical and mental stress, hence the nonsense of the physchological vs. physiological debate. It all adds to the load on the organism.

I know this is from pages back but I think it is important. Exercise is not a stress on the body, our bodies are built for movement that is why exercise makes us feel better. We are like other carnivores in that we can run then recover. It is a beautifully coordinated interacting function.

We live in a complex society where mental stress is hard to dissipate, things which worry us are often out of our control. This mental stress can cause emotional and physical damage but is totally different from the strains on the body of a pleasurable stroll.

I know many people with MS and stress has led to them relapsing, but it has always been a "distressing" experience. In fifteen years of attending an MS therapy centre I have met no one who felt they had relapse because of they had too much fun.

In ME normal bodily movements bring on symptoms and relapse, this is the essence of the disease in the same way normal amounts of carbohydrates bring on the problems of diabetes. Before our illness we coped with them fine so to call this "stress" is wrong and leads to things like the CDC saying we are genetically weak.

I accept that some people become worse with emotional stress, but many of us don't.

Mithriel

 

[DysautonomiaXMRV]

Great find Alice Band, thank you.

Such irony then, that this person behaves like a Nazi . A psychologist could have many theories as to why.
PTSD passed on by a phenotype possibly. I know as children we can unintentionally 'adopt' genetic
traits and even emotional reactions in one generation of our parents experiences.

I am interested that he (bizarrely) claimed that XMRV doesn't explain childhood trauma.
That statement was so off the wall, and nothing to do with neuro immune disease and retroviroloy that
I wonder if he's trying to tell us something?

I know on a professional level he is most interested as to how humans react to trauma.
By utter co-incidence he created trauma himself (In CFS and GWS) then can analyse it on a theoretical
level. Quite brilliant in my opinion, if one sees humans as rats. It's an OCD on abuse and being the orchestrator of it, he can understand it better.

No other person in the medical field would be employed due to his incredible views on CFS, only in the psychiatric profession
would this be legal and validated as 'research' by basically taunting patients. His arrogance and audacity is quite extraordinary.
Most certainly the personality trait of a malignant narcissist. A sociopath incapable of any feeling or remorse for others - and where others are seen
as objects.

 

[flex]

flybro,

That really is a shocking video. The female psychiatrist is Trudy Chalder one of Wesselys cronies. You can see from her body language that she knows she is talking rubbish and is being lead by the interviewer. I wonder how many takes it took!!

Have a look at my thread "campaign to bring Wessely to justice"

I am intending on demanding his immediate suspension from all issues surrounding ME/CFS from the Uk government as a public concern and human rights issue with a many signaturees as possible from the worldwide ME community. There are 17million of us.

The letters will be sent simultaniously to all major press organisations, medical councils and the WHO.

The letter will be typed on line soon and available for download to be sent from anyone anywhere in the world.

 

[xanadu]

The female psychiatrist is Trudy Chalder one of Wesselys cronies.

Flex

Small point, but Trudie Chalder and Vincent Deary (another crony) are both mental nurses who became CBT therapists. They have advanced themselves academically, but they did not qualify as doctors let alone do postgrad training in psychiatry.

 

[flex]

Xanadu,

Thats an interesting point, and not a small one. I didnt know that. So Wessely is like the big Columbian drug barron and they are the little back street pushers.

So she was in that video telling medical doctors how to investigate thier patients. We pay for the NHS through our taxes and private companies come in and do training videos telling Medical doctors what to do.

Interesting.

 

[garcia]

Garcia, you're asking very similar questions to the ones I asked. Firstly, although I have the concession that SW beleives the illness to be physical with a mental, lets call it 'influencing' factor, I can't tell how much he thinks each plays part, or which is the controlling factor, obviously I've used myself as the discussion example and I'd absolutely dispute that I have any psycological problem. However, I had to conceed that my own symptoms at least appear to get worse during periods of stress. I've had various examples through work, where after prolonged periods of pressure comming into project rollouts I've basically crashed. Now I'd argue that, given my physical symptoms, then of course increased load will effect that. But I can't argue that learning to recognise the precursors to the crash would allow me to prepare or avert. If you add that to, I don't necessarily best prioritise for my own benefit, that due to my personality for instance I perhaps don't often enough say, 'no, that's your responsibility', then you start to see where an argument for CBT as a tool to help deal with my illness can be won, whether I like it of not! Beyond that SW has quite pointedly stated that he beleives this to be a real physical condition, that leaves me nowhere to go unless I provied a paper which states otherwise, and I have at this invite started to read through his papers.

This hasn't been said, because to me it's self apparent, but we as yet don't have an answer like the HIV guys have, then there's going to be debate about what's best for our treatment, I'm following one of Pall's protocols and I've bought into Gupta's amygdala stuff, which to me is CBTish. So, just from what's available, and from what I've decided to try I can't with hand on heart say I see no place for SW, what I would say is I don't understand Psychiatry's leading role, I think at best it should be supportive, and directed at symptom management.

Holmsey, I'm very uncomfortable with the whole notion of a mental "influencing factor", since it leaves the door open to be labled as psych-patients. The notion of getting worse with stress is certainly not unique to ME/CFS. For example people with autoimmune diseases suffer relapses during periods of stress. Yet they don't need psychiatrists to manage their disease.

I can understand the use of supportive tools, whether for lifestyle adjustment, symptom management or whatever. No one would begrudge you the use of whatever tool you felt you needed, whether it was yoga, accupuncture, Gupta, or even CBT. The point is I wouldn't let my accupuncturist control my ME treatment. Or my yoga teacher for that matter. So why should the psychiatrists get to say how our disease is treated? Also CBT is not something that we have to fight or argue for. It is freely available from the NHS.

Let me give you an analogy. Let say a child has cancer. His parents take him to priest to pray for him. Nothing wrong with that. However if they took their child to the priest, and only to the priest, and not to a doctor you would say they were negligent. You might even say they were guilty of child neglect/abuse. So how is it a health service can send an ME/CFS patient for CBT and provide them with no other medical support? And yet we don't say the health service is abusing the patient. It doesn't make sense. Unless you take the position that ME/CFS is a mental disease (with physical manifestations).

If you don't take that position, then what we are facing in the NHS is abuse, plain and simple. Then you have to ask yourself the question who is orchestrating this abuse? The answer is the psychiatric-school, the chief architect of whom is Simon Wessely.

 

[natasa778]

If you don't take that position, then what we are facing in the NHS is abuse, plain and simple. Then you have to ask yourself the question who is orchestrating this abuse? The answer is the psychiatric-school, the chief architect of whom is Simon Wessely.

This then makes this "ethical misconduct" by Wessely, doesn't it? Any of his patients who feels this way should consider bringing the matter up for consideration by GMC - they have wasted huge amounts of time and money 'investigating' those who are trying to research and treat "psychosomatic diseases" as having biomedical basis. Time to turn this on its head!

If enough patients of his complained about his unethical conduct GMC would have to look into this sooner or later. Would make for some nice headlines.

 

[Countrygirl]

Hi Holmsley,

You say that S.W. has quite pointed stated that this is a physical condition.

Please can you tell us where he has said this and give us the quote. I have never read that he says this, quite the reverse, even if sometimes only by strong implication.

Thanks

best wishes,

Countrygirl

 

[flex]

I know this is from pages back but I think it is important. Exercise is not a stress on the body, our bodies are built for movement that is why exercise makes us feel better. We are like other carnivores in that we can run then recover. It is a beautifully coordinated interacting function.

In ME normal bodily movements bring on symptoms and relapse, this is the essence of the disease in the same way normal amounts of carbohydrates bring on the problems of diabetes. Before our illness we coped with them fine so to call this "stress" is wrong and leads to things like the CDC saying we are genetically weak.

I accept that some people become worse with emotional stress, but many of us don't.

Mithriel

Beautifully put. Also I somtimes think we over play the "stress of modern day" line. Psychs like to use this one to simplify their argument (stress causes ME)

We are today richer,warmer and more secure than many generations gone past. We in the Uk are not being bombed from the air like in WW2, we dont live on rationed food, we dont send are children to school with no shoes on and as hard as we work it cannot compare to years gone by. If a women had 5 children 2 would probably die. I would imagine that these eras were much more stressful.

Wessely talks about 1st WW soldiers suffering from" shell shock" and compares it to GWS. He negates to mention that 1st WW soldiers lived in rat infested trenches, with no proper sanitation, or clean water, they were exposed to nerve gas and the diseased ridden bodies of their dead comrades lying next to them.

Quite an infectious attack on the neuro immune system I would say!!

Saying "stress" causes ME is like saying driving a car causes ME. We all drive cars and we are all exposed to "stress"

 

[Hysterical Woman]

I am having a fit of the vapours.......!!!!


Have just read that Professor Simon Wessely has been give a MEDAL by the Royal College of Physicians for his outstanding work in the field of C.F.S. :Sign Please:



Someone pass me the smelling salts..........:tear:


I think I have read that before, but had forgotton about it.

Hi CG,

Welcome to the club!! You can also be an "Hysterical Woman" if you like

Cheers,

Maxine

 

[joyscobby]

ME - A Hidden National Scandal Exposed

Even if in the very very very ...... unlikely event of xmrv not being in the UK then we still have this. ME - A Hidden National Scandal Exposed How can Wessely et al get away with this.



[video=youtube;hkGq0BH6AHw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkGq0BH6AHw&feature=related[/video]