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EPO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin

WillowJ

คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl
Messages
4,940
Location
WA, USA
EPO is a hormone that increases red cells. It does not affect plasma volume. If plasma volume is low, EPO (or EPO alone) will not solve the problem. You would have tests showing anemia, if you needed EPO alone.

Whether saline and EPO could be used together if low blood volume were established (for instance, with one of those nuclear blood volume tests), I do not know.

fwiw, EPO is expensive.

Here's an ER primer on treating acute and very severe hypovalemia (causing shock; other types of shock are also covered); but the principles would be similar for hypovalemia due to OI/POTS.
http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/abuadas/Documents/PressorUpdate.pdf
 
Last edited:

Allyson

Senior Member
Messages
1,684
Location
Australia, Melbourne
EPO is a hormone that increases red cells. It does not affect plasma volume. If plasma volume is low, EPO (or EPO alone) will not solve the problem. You would have tests showing anemia, if you needed EPO alone.

Whether saline and EPO could be used together if low blood volume were established (for instance, with one of those nuclear blood volume tests), I do not know.

fwiw, EPO is expensive.

Here's an ER primer on treating acute and very severe hypovalemia (causing shock; other types of shock are also covered); but the principles would be similar for hypovalemia due to OI/POTS.
http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/abuadas/Documents/PressorUpdate.pdf


Many thanks indeed WIllow

Well I do not need EPO then - my red cell count reads as high due to low plasma volume but in fact is normal f my plasma volume is corrected

thanks, yes what I need is plasma replacement

I have polyuria, polydipsia and nocturia most of the time - since I was about 30 I think

M B 12 seems to stop it all though for about 7-10 days after each shot.

I will read through that info now - I hear ithe US they hae IV clinics where you go in for a fortnightly IV saline infusion and that helps many - plain saline one time, saline with vitamins the next - I have a pic of it somewhere

thanks again,

Ally
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
this was one of the main drugs lance armstrong used.
Maybe we should all be seeing the doctors of these high performance athletes??
I think there is probably some good knowledge out there that could help us but its probably to controversial and expensive, plus we dont get paid by sponsors like coke and nike.

We use to use an iv fluid called haemaccel(unsure of spelling) for severe hypovolemia and it was used in preference to saline as it lasted longer in the system to help keep blood pressure up?? http://home.intekom.com/pharm/hmr/haemacel.htmlif one benefits from saline iv's these may last longer??
 

Allyson

Senior Member
Messages
1,684
Location
Australia, Melbourne
Many patients with dysautonomia take this drug with some success.

Sushi


do you mean EPO here Sushi? I have never heard of anyone taking it to date - would they not have to test blood volume and RCC first before giving it?

AND so few of us seem to have had our blood volume tested

cheers

ALLY
 

Allyson

Senior Member
Messages
1,684
Location
Australia, Melbourne
this was one of the main drugs lance armstrong used.
Maybe we should all be seeing the doctors of these high performance athletes??
I think there is probably some good knowledge out there that could help us but its probably to controversial and expensive, plus we dont get paid by sponsors like coke and nike.

We use to use an iv fluid called haemaccel(unsure of spelling) for severe hypovolemia and it was used in preference to saline as it lasted longer in the system to help keep blood pressure up?? http://home.intekom.com/pharm/hmr/haemacel.htmlif one benefits from saline iv's these may last longer??


yes thanks HEAPS

Hemacell is used fairly regularly in hospital settings for shock, bleed etc as you say


the link did not open though for me

I wonder why more of us do not get that?
best

Ally
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
do you mean EPO here Sushi? I have never heard of anyone taking it to date - would they not have to test blood volume and RCC first before giving it?

AND so few of us seem to have had our blood volume tested

cheers

ALLY

I was confusing a couple of things from a post by Rich--but there is a relationship. I'll just paste in Rich's post:

Excess Urination, Hypovolemia, Erythropoeitin, & Iron—Rich Van Konynenburg—from the immunesupport.com CFS forum


Here's a possible explanation for why a person might need more iron after starting a treatment to lift the methylation cycle block: Many PWCs have a low total blood volume compared to normal, which I suspect is due to mild diabetes insipidus (not the same as diabetes mellitis). I think the diabetes insipidus in CFS is caused by glutathione depletion (secondary to methylation cycle block) in the cells of the hypothalamus that synthesize arginine vasopressin (antidiuretic hormone).

This causes the kidneys to excrete more water than normal into urine. This produces thirst and high fluid consumption, but it is unable to keep up with the excretion of water, so the total blood plasmas drops, and the person becomes hypovolemic (low blood volume). Now, I suspect that the kidneys then lower their production of erythropoeitin, which causes the bone marrow to slow the production of new red blood cells. If it didn't do that, the blood viscosity would rise, and that would cause problems with circulation.


PWCs also usually have a normal red blood cell count (sometimes a little low with somewhat large red blood cells (macrocytic), but usually still in the normal range). The blood count is a measure of the number of cells per unit volume of blood. So if the total volume is low and the RBC count is normal, that says that the total number of red cells is low, also.

Now, if the person treats to lift the methylation cycle block, the glutathione level in the hypothalamus should come up. This should raise the secretion of vasopressin, which should cut down on the daily urine volume. That should raise the volume of the blood serum, which in turn should cause the kidneys to put out more erythropoeitin, which will signal the bone marrow to produce new red blood cells at a faster rate. Since lifting the methylation cycle block also unblocks the folate cycle, there is now more of the particular folates needed to make new RNA and DNA, which are needed to make the precursors to red blood cells. The upshot of all this is that the rate of production of red blood cells will go up, which will demand a higher rate of production of hemoglobin. Hemoglobin, of course, requires iron. There's the increased demand for iron.

Excess iron is normally stored in the cells lining the gut, but if it isn't needed, it is excreted in the stools as the old cells slough off. If a person hasn't had a normal demand for iron for a long time, the inventory of iron stored in the cells lining the gut could be low. Thus, when the demand for iron suddenly goes up, these cells can become depleted. If that happens, the ferritin stores will drop, and eventually the actual iron level in the blood will go down, and the person may switch from the macrocytic anemia caused by the methylation cycle block to a microcytic anemia caused by low iron (iron deficiency anemia). So extra iron could certainly be needed in this situation.

(my bolding)
 

ahimsa

ahimsa_pdx on twitter
Messages
1,921
EPO _ has anyone tried this please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin

I believe it is useful for low blood voume and so maybe for POTS/OI

I have no personal experience with the drug but I noticed that it's one of the drugs mentioned on the "what helps" page at dinet.org -- see http://www.dinet.org/what_helps.htm and scroll down

This page has a long list of drugs listed alphabetically. Many of them may not be very helpful and/or may have side effects that are not tolerable. And I don't know when the page was last updated. Just FYI.