Recurrent Blood Blisters

[ahmo]

This is a new symptom for me. I've had a small blueish 'lesion' at the corner of my lip for some time (years?), which spontaneously blew up into a blood blister a few months ago. It then retreated back to its former barely noticeable size. Now during the past month I've had 3 more eruptions. 2 were inside my cheek, recurring at the same place, and most recently one on the side of my tongue. After about 2 days they have resolved into what looks like a deflated blister, and then disappeared.

I've been researching Mast Cell syndrome, which I'm pretty sure accounts for my very blotchy skin, but for which a definitive diagnosis is bone marrow biopsy, which is not going to happen. In my searching I've wondered if these blisters are related to mast cell. There's another thing called mucous membrane pemphigoid, "Mucous membrane pemphigoid (MMP) is an autoimmune blistering disorder that is characterized by subepithelial bullae" or Angina Bullosa Haemorrhagica, "Differential diagnosis must include pemphigus, bullous pemphigoid, bullous lichen planus, dermatitis herpetiformis, epidermolysis bullosa, oral amyloidosis and thrombocytopenia. No treatment is required for ABH because the blood blisters spontaneously rupture and heal." "A causative factor is not identified in almost 50% of patients." "MMP is not a single disease, rather it represents a group of heterogeneous, chronic subepithelial blistering diseases that primarily affect mucosal surfaces..."

Anyone have experience or understanding of this? What really concerns me is that these are suddenly occurring, and recurring. The first one in my mouth I thought might have been an injury from eating a hard nut. But not the following ones. This is happening at the same time as all my other symptoms are reducing, and there's been no change in my diet, few changes in my supps. Thanks for any input. ahmo

 

[Phred]

@ahmo I had that blackened "thing" on the corner of my mouth in my early twenties. It was quite unsightly. The dermatologist biopsied it and said, "Well it's not cancer," but gave no other diagnosis. It finally went away on it's own.

Most recently I had a skin tag on the side of my lip. I had that removed last summer.

"Differential diagnosis must include pemphigus, bullous pemphigoid, bullous lichen planus, dermatitis herpetiformis, epidermolysis bullosa, oral amyloidosis and thrombocytopenia

As a teen I had ITP (idiopathic, thrombocytopenia, purpura). I could not keep my platelet count above 11 to 15 thousand, or so, without large doses of prednisone. After months of begging I was finally given a splenectomy, which resolved the issue. In fact my platelets now skirt the border of being too high.

As for the dermatitis herpetiformis in that quote, that IS Celiac. In some the antibodies may not attack the intestines (or may attack in conjunction with) but go after the skin. When that happens it's dermatitis herpetiformis or DH. The only curative measure for that is a gluten free diet.

I have been diagnosed with Celiac. Whether that goes hand in hand with mast cell I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. I'm sorry I can't offer any suggestions on how to stop what is happening to you. I can tell you that I still get some weird spots (the beginnings of angular chelitis?) on the corner of my mouth. But that, for me, is a direct result of Fredddd's paradoxical folate deficiency. More folate seems to help.

Hopefully there are others who have better information to help. Good luck.

 

[Freddd]

HI Ahmo,

My first thought was "do not recognize". Then you continued. And it has gone to "I don't know". Consider, B12 and or folate are distributed in various layers, as appearing in levels of healing, that has been called an internal "triage" system. You know, deep mucosal is still epithelial tissue, and B12/folate deficiencies are notorious for causing epithelial lesions. Maybe the question is why MMP instead of canker sores. Or maybe I have to wonder if those might have ever been included amongst my many varieties of miseries. Have you tried increasing Metafolin to see what happens? I have seen some linkage with MeCbl, fuzzy at best. However, folic acid can help reduce it according to various sources. So it could very well be a paradoxical folate insufficiency layer. But you know, that is a very up against the wall way of approaching the problem. Perhaps more Metafolin, maybe 50% more or 100% to test possibility then titrate down from above, if it works. Looking at it from a game theory point of view, what are the potential gains versus potential risks. My thoughts for me in this situation would be to try the additional L-methylfolate for a few weeks of an additional 4mg or whatever with maybe one or two more increments if that didn't work just to rule it out. The cost of missing it could be that you never examine that aspect again and so never find it. Eliminate it fairly. I've tried doubling or tripling the dose for a day to see what the effects are. Not much at all unless it affects something.

 

[ahmo]

Phred, yes, I do have celiac. I've been gluten free nearly 2 years. And yes, I believe one version of my urticaria to be DH. I've read that we can still be reactive even 5 years after last gluten intake! If I get too much iodine, I definitely get a DH outbreak.

Freddd, When I check my notes, I see that the inner cheek lesions came about 2 weeks after I'd decreased folate. The initial outbreak, at lip, came some time before that. I decreased folate because it was pushing histamines. I might try increasing it and see what happens. I'm only using .5mg, a single Nutricology MTHF cap, which seems to be less than many are using. But I feel balanced in all other regards. Thanks to both of you. ahmo

 

[Freddd]

Hi Ahmo,

Low methylfolate makes for a large increase in histamines and the responses to those generally. Low l-methylfolate as in methylblock causes huge increases in asthma, MCS, allergic responses, skin problems of many sorts and large increases of inflammation all over the body, hyper responses, autoimmune responses and so on. Or do you mean some other histamine responses?

 

[ahmo]

Freddd, yes, skin, and something approaching an asthma-like coughing, cat coughs. (I had this bronchitis-turned-asthma coughing for 7 years, in my 30's. Then it stopped and other symptoms took over.) When I had a few of these episodes recently, along w/ skin itching for no reason, I cut back initially mfolate, and then later TMG. The symptoms stopped. I thought that a number of the symptoms you've listed for under- and over-methylation are the same...might be my poor comprehension. So I'm having some sort of paradoxical response?? cheers, ahmo

 

[Freddd]

Freddd, yes, skin, and something approaching an asthma-like coughing, cat coughs. (I had this bronchitis-turned-asthma coughing for 7 years, in my 30's. Then it stopped and other symptoms took over.) When I had a few of these episodes recently, along w/ skin itching for no reason, I cut back initially mfolate, and then later TMG. The symptoms stopped. I thought that a number of the symptoms you've listed for under- and over-methylation are the same...might be my poor comprehension. So I'm having some sort of paradoxical response?? cheers, ahmo

Hi Ahmo,

As regards "over" and "under" methylation of an example that doesn't work out as the symptoms of both are the same universe of deficiency symptoms and even identical one. I was pointing out absurdity of the definitions.

 

[ahmo]

Fred,

As regards "over" and "under" methylation of an example that doesn't work out as the symptoms of both are the same universe of deficiency symptoms and even identical one. I was pointing out absurdity of the definitions.

What? I've spent a couple hours looking for the list I was thinking of, can't find it, tho I found your list of over and under methylators. The nearest was the list I found on http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...and-minus-100-pounds.25788/page-2#post-405187

I've also returned to your How to titrate to get out of donut hole insufficiency article. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...to-get-out-of-donut-hole-insufficiency.22614/

I can only conclude from the donut-hole thread that you'd suggest I further increase my mfolate, to accommodate any symptoms that might cause. Given that my primary issues are over-senstivity to sounds, tendency to hyper-reactivity, anxiety...I'm not so willing to push that edge. I added 200mcg mfolate yesterday, thought it was pushing a cough response, but that's uncertain. So I'll be brave enough to try again shortly. But since I feel so much better on all measures, I'm reluctant to enter into the world of those neurological based symptoms again. Prior to lowering my B's I was having a bit of acne, which cleared within 3 days of low dose. Prior to lowering mfolate I had scalp irritation, which cleared with decreasing dose. cheers, ahmo