MTR/MTRR ++ but low homocysteine, result of 3 months methylation?

[WoolPippi]

I'm homozygous for MTR A2756G and MTRR A66G and have been supplementing mB12 and folinic acid for 3 months now. Is it possible that this lowered my homocysteine already by a lot??

I did not have the level tested before I started, had only the genome results and a plausible theory.
Had blood test last week: "Alert! Homocysteine is below 6. Reference value is 5 to 15."
The numbers came without an entity (such as mMol/l) and doctors assistant had no clue.

Can my methylation protocol have lowered my h. levels so significantly in that short period of time?
Could something siphoning my h. away? (I am heteroz. for one BHMT, one CBS, one MTR and two MTHFRs. A few others were non-called.)

I am really puzzled. I have stopped the folinic acid now because I do not feel very good on it. Just a hunch on which I trust my sensitive body... I do continue with the mB12 however.

(before the discussion starts: I did not have my level checked before hand because I couldn't get my tired body to the hospital nor could I face the stress of a needle. It was a conscious decision and a good one.)

 

[WoolPippi]

o god am I mixing up my theories? Do I have low homocysteine because my MTR/MTRR is out? are those the factory guys?

 

[PennyIA]

I would agree that it is feasible that the current treatment could be sufficient to lower homocysteine levels.

My personal experience was that I was diagnosed with high homocysteine levels - told to take folic acid, b6, and b12 (without any additional information to help me understand that I might have MTHFR and why the VERSIONS of the supplements might matter).

My homocysteine level was perfectly normal in a very short amount of time during follow up testing, however I started to develop my current symptoms within three months of taking the un-methylated versions of the supplements.

My personal belief is that high homocysteine levels don't predict how much of the usable form of the vitamin is in your body.

 

[Critterina]

I agree it's plausible. The MB12 would help recycle the Hcy to methionine. It's also possible your Hcy wasn't all that high to begin with.

"Are you feeling better?" is the important question. Just that you were well enough to go get tested is a good thing.

My Hcy was in the bottom 20% of normal, but my methionine was below normal, as were other essential dietary proteins that I wasn't supplementing. I was muscle wasting. That sort of puts a different twist on Hcy level, doesn't it? Like when you stop muscle wasting and have normal methionine, what will your Hcy be then?

 

[WoolPippi]

thank you both
I didn't have my theory accurate, it is actually easily possible.

a faulty MTR grabs any and all homocysteine it can get hold off and tries to glue a folate to it. This requires a lot of mB12. Its buddy MTRR is supposed to make this mB12 but my MTRR is a couch potato.
As soon as I started to supplement mB12 my MTR might've easily gone wild, grabbing up every homocysteine in reach, lowering my levels.

I do feel better on mB12. I take about 1mg (B12 felt not ok, neither did folate acid. Folinic acid doesn't seem to do much either way.)

Critterina, that is something to wonder about indeed. I eat lots of lukewarm egg yokes, trying to get full spectrum proteins that way. I noticed hard boiled eggs are not eaten by any creature in nature (no slugs, mice, bugs, hedgehogs) when I left my surplus egg whites out for them so I'm thinking this altered protein is not well processed by animals, including humans.
Next time I'll get my methionine checked too.

to remind myself, this is what Heartfixer says about MTR/MTRR:
"The MTR A2756G defect is an up regulation. The enzyme is always on, grabbing every homocysteine and 5-methyl folate molecule that it can get its hands on, processing them to methionine and THF. Methyl-B12 is required for normal function of MTR, and with each spin of the MTR enzyme, one molecule of methyl-B12 is degraded.

MTRR (Methionine Synthase Reductase) serves the needs of MTR, regenerating methyl-B12 from available methyl donors and B12. Without methyl-B12, MTR cannot convert homocysteine in to methionine. Needed downstream methyl donors such as SAMe will not be generated. Methylation fails, so does your biochemistry, and there goes your health. "

 

[Critterina]

thank you both
I didn't have my theory accurate, it is actually easily possible.

Yep, you're welcome. My theories are still inaccurate in some areas, and in others, I'm not sure if I've got it right. It's a learning process.

a faulty MTR grabs any and all homocysteine it can get hold off and tries to glue a folate to it. This requires a lot of mB12. Its buddy MTRR is supposed to make this mB12 but my MTRR is a couch potato.
As soon as I started to supplement mB12 my MTR might've easily gone wild, grabbing up every homocysteine in reach, lowering my levels.

I do feel better on mB12. I take about 1mg (B12 felt not ok, neither did folate acid. Folinic acid doesn't seem to do much either way.)

Yep, that's the idea. I'm not surprised you are better on mB12. I reacted to folinic acid, but I have a homozygous SHMT, so maybe that was making a difference; that and the amount of mB12 I was taking at the time. I'm thinking of trying either mfolate or folinic instead of both, and seeing how I do.

Critterina, that is something to wonder about indeed. I eat lots of lukewarm egg yokes, trying to get full spectrum proteins that way. I noticed hard boiled eggs are not eaten by any creature in nature (no slugs, mice, bugs, hedgehogs) when I left my surplus egg whites out for them so I'm thinking this altered protein is not well processed by animals, including humans.
Next time I'll get my methionine checked too.

I always figured that the reasons no creatures in nature eat boiled egg whites is that they never figured out how to boil them. Actually, cooked eggs are easily digested by normal stomach acid, and it's one of the more complete proteins (most in line with what we need). Eggs do often contain salmonella, though, which can make you pretty sick. That's why people are cautioned to cook them thoroughly. When I was in college (microbiology major, 1980s), they said about 10% of the eggs sold in the US had salmonella. If you know you have a clean source, it's no problem, but if not, it's best to cook 'em.

to remind myself, this is what Heartfixer says about MTR/MTRR:
"The MTR A2756G defect is an up regulation. The enzyme is always on, grabbing every homocysteine and 5-methyl folate molecule that it can get its hands on, processing them to methionine and THF. Methyl-B12 is required for normal function of MTR, and with each spin of the MTR enzyme, one molecule of methyl-B12 is degraded.

I just had an interesting conversation with @Kimsie about this. She said that you get 200-2000 spins of the MTR enzyme before it needs an new mB12. I can figure out who counts the spins, but apparently there is a degradation/deactivation that MTRR reactivates with mB12. Heartfixer is wrong about CBS, so maybe this too.

MTRR (Methionine Synthase Reductase) serves the needs of MTR, regenerating methyl-B12 from available methyl donors and B12. Without methyl-B12, MTR cannot convert homocysteine in to methionine. Needed downstream methyl donors such as SAMe will not be generated. Methylation fails, so does your biochemistry, and there goes your health. "

That may be a little simpler than the actual situation, because all methionine starts as dietary methionine (excepting people who take SAMe). So you can make SAMe from dietary methionine (eggs, for example). But overall, you've got the picture. I've heard that half your methionine at any given time is from your diet (not having been homocysteine), half has been through the homocysteine cycle, remethylated by MTR. So when my methionine is low, is that because of my diet? Because my methylation cycle is broken? (Actually, I'm pretty sure it was the first, since I wasn't digesting or absorbing proteins, including methionine).

Have you tried taking more than 1 mg mB12 to see if you get more improvement? I usually mB12 take it 3x/day, whether I have 1 mg tablets or 5 mg. As most of the 5 mg gets swallowed (destroyed), instead of absorbed sublingually, I think it's about the same. 3x/day seems like it's better for me. Maybe I'm just making expensive pee, , but I don't seem to have an adverse effect.