sensitivities to medication

[outdamnspot]

I have a two-fold question.

Firstly, I was wondering if people here found that their sensitivities to medications like anti-depressants, stimulants etc. *increased* after they became ill?

I can't really recall if it's always been the case for me, i.e. if it's something that's genetic, or if it's developed over time, but I've become cripplingly sensitive to psychiatric drugs and experience a lot of paradoxical reactions therein.

Secondly, did getting your anxiety/depression under control by some means (e.g. on an SSRI) *alter* your sensitivity to other drugs, i.e. did it allow you to tolerate benzos or other stuff that had previously caused you trouble?

The reason I'm asking is because my OCD is pretty out-of-control, to the point where I don't know how much longer I can take it. I was heartbroken when two drugs that had showed pretty inspiring results in studies -- Memantine and Riluzole -- both made me feel far worse. I've been wondering lately if revisiting either with something like an SSRI on board would be worthwhile.

Thanks!

 

[peggy-sue]

It is failry well-known that yes, we do suffer from sensitivities to drugs.

However, which drugs and how sensitive we are is highly individual.

We just have to try things.

Always start off on a tiny, tiny dose. Never, ever take the full "normal" one!

When I start heading on the road to full-blown clinical depression, it starts out with an increase in my OCD behaviours, and I was going there a few years ago - I knew I had to get something, probably an SSRI.
I hate them and do not take them lightly.

After a bit of research, I chose citalopram as one that seemed (anecdotally at least) to have fewer side effects in ME than others.

I had been on prozac before, pre-ME, and had tried it a second time before only to discover that it doesn't work at all a second time around (for me).

I started off on 10mgs - half the normal dose.

For 6 weeks, my anxiety increased. I did not sleep - or even bother going to bed, for the first 48 hours.

I was bouncing off the walls, running around in circles, muttering the same things over and over to myself...

I managed to speak to a chap in a herbalist/homeopathy chemist shop, who was able to tell me that it was safe to take valerian-based herbal calming tablets with citalopram, I was very grateful for that, it did help a little bit.

I had every side effect mentioned and a few of my own to boot,

before it finally calmed down and kicked in with the anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects.

But it was 6 weeks of utter hell before it did work. I'm still on them. I still hate them.
But clinical depression and the anxiety is far worse.

Benzos are a no-no for me. I was severely addicted during the over-prescribing scandal in the '70s, and have major addictive problems anyway. I did have to resort to them once, since becoming ill.
I do think I was more sensitive to its effects - and I liked it even more than I did when first given it.

 

[SickOfSickness]

Worth trying. I agree, start with a very low dose. I take 1/4 of whatever lowest amount is given to healthy persons.

 

[peggy-sue]

It is a diifficult place to be - but you have to seriously consider not only the utter misery of the anxiety and OCD and the depression which can/will ensue from it...


as well as the dreadful effects on your ME health of being like that - with adrenalin surges from the anxiety ruling your everyday life

making pacing impossible and overdoing yourself just being.

We simply cannot afford to be all wired-up like that.

 

[Beyond]

I also suffer from OCD. My research (which is indeed the research of others lol) points out that abnormal SEROTONIN is something seen in many OCD sufferers. Seems like both high or low serotonin create OCD, but I put my money in faulty genes promoting lower serotonin at least for my case. The antidepressants that modulate serotonin are pretty effective with this, although I dislike drugs,

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-004-0489-y
http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=495048

 

[peggy-sue]

My OCD is a reaction to being bullied by folk who have power over me.

I cannot take appropriate evasive action;
I resort to inappropriate behaviour to release the need to do something, to give me an illusion of feeling in control of something.

That came first.

I am utterly unconvinced by any of the recent (since prozac) claims about serotonin having any roles in any of the things drug compaines say it does.

Taking an SSRI completely reorganises all the hormone systems.

Moods and feelings are HORMONAL, not neurotransmitterry.

(think 'roid rage, PMT, the (oxytocin) rush of mother-love... activation of the fight-flight response - all hormonal.)

The difference between a hormone and a neurotransmitter is the location of the substance. Hormones circulate in the blood, neurotransmitters are released into synaptic terminals in vesicles.

Nobody yet knows the full implications of taking SSRIs on the body.

But increasing serotonin levels in the synapses does not fix depression.

It gets "fixed" after a few weeks of the synaptic levels being increased.

(Although I do know of one person here said it did fix the depression immediately, for them. )

 

[caledonia]

I have a two-fold question.

Firstly, I was wondering if people here found that their sensitivities to medications like anti-depressants, stimulants etc. *increased* after they became ill?

I can't really recall if it's always been the case for me, i.e. if it's something that's genetic, or if it's developed over time, but I've become cripplingly sensitive to psychiatric drugs and experience a lot of paradoxical reactions therein.

Secondly, did getting your anxiety/depression under control by some means (e.g. on an SSRI) *alter* your sensitivity to other drugs, i.e. did it allow you to tolerate benzos or other stuff that had previously caused you trouble?

The reason I'm asking is because my OCD is pretty out-of-control, to the point where I don't know how much longer I can take it. I was heartbroken when two drugs that had showed pretty inspiring results in studies -- Memantine and Riluzole -- both made me feel far worse. I've been wondering lately if revisiting either with something like an SSRI on board would be worthwhile.

Thanks!

There are many reasons for not tolerating psych drugs. One is genetic mutations in the detox pathways that these drugs use. The mutations will either cause a down regulation so they don't detox well, or an upregulation so that it doesn't stay in your system very long. For example, I did bad on Xanax because I have an upregulation and it's a short acting drug. When the drug went in, it made me loopy, and went it went out, anxious. I do better on clonazepam because it's longer acting.

Another reason is that once we get sick, we have slow running detox pathways in general, so a normal dose may be like an overdose to us. That's why you start off with teeny tiny doses.

The third reason is due to the damage caused by pysch drugs, and withdrawal syndromes. I developed OCD as a result of withdrawing from Zoloft. I don't really have OCD, the drug caused this. I had to reinstate the Zoloft and that got rid of the OCD. Doctors will tell you that you have a new disorder and need more drugs. This is rubbish. Now I'm tapering again off Zoloft and going much slower. At about the 6 week mark, I get some mild OCD, then it goes away again. Then I'm ready for the next dose reduction.

The real reason for mental health problems is actually methylation. Methylation issues = mental health issues. Therefore the real treatment is to work on methylation and not take drugs which will screw up methylation further. I assume you're on here because you also have ME/CFS. Methylation treatment should help all of your issues.

Read this article on methylation and mental health, and also check out the links in my signature.

If you decide to taper from any psych meds, you need to be extremely cautious - no more than a 10% reduction of the previous dose every 3-6 weeks. I'm actually going a bit slower than that - waiting for 8 weeks. See the Paxil Progress forum for more info.

 

[caledonia]

Also, I suggest, as something you can get started on right away is to get your GABA and glutamate balanced. We tend to have high glutamate and this causes anxiety. Amy Yasko has more info on this. Basically you need to avoid MSG and glutamates in food, and then take supps that support GABA.

 

[Beyond]

@peggy-sue I have had OCD all my life. I have been diagnosed with Asperger´s. I understand fully that others develop mental symptoms as a reaction to abuse or stress but they have been with me all my life. OCD is worse nowadaways, probably because my physical and emotional even-more-adverse situation.

Yeah methylation is actually one of the secret keys for psychiatric illness. Gut, adrenals, thyroid and methylation, those are the keys for mental wellness. I am severely defficient in GABA, as per my urine analysis. It all fits.

I wrote this in MTHFR support on the matter. This is just the tip of the icerberg. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...192098.-2207520000.1383154985.&type=3&theater

 

[peggy-sue]

My OH is an Aspie.
I seem to get on with Aspies very well - I like and am comfortable with their objectivity and rationality.


(please see my later post too. I want to add that I'm well aware that Aspberger's can be incredibly debiltating. The folk I know personally are only moderately affected. Which still makes life very difficult for them! My sincere apologies if I have offended anybody. )

 

[outdamnspot]

Thanks guys. Tolerating SSRIs at low doses isn't a huge issue; the problem is, they just don't do very much for my anxiety or depression. Prozac and Zoloft were bad in that they increased anxiety and insomnia a lot, but I found Lexapro and Luvox pretty benign. Once I go past standard doses, however (e.g. 10mg of Lexapro), I start to get movement problems like RLS, which is why I had been looking into augmenting agents.

So it has been on my mind whether or not something like Memantine might help if I took it with an SSRI on board. But it's not like it did it's job and then had some intolerable side-effects to boot (e.g. stimulants).. it's primary purpose is to decrease anxiety and it increased mine (same deal with benzos), so it does seem like wishful thinking.

I guess I'll talk it over with the next doctor I see.

 

[peggy-sue]

I think talking it over with your doc is a good idea. You do not seem to have normal responses to these drugs.

I hope the doc takes you seriously and can suggest something that will do the trick without harming you!

It would be a good idea to write out a list of the drugs you have tried and the side effects you got from each, at which dose.

That should help your doc to work out what is going on inside you - and keep you straight without getting confused when you are with them.

PS. further to my last post:-
I want to add that I'm well aware that Aspberger's can be incredibly debiltating. The folk I know personally are only moderately affected. Which still makes life very difficult for them! My sincere apologies if I have offended anybody.

 

[Beyond]

Don´t be troubled peggy-sue, I wasnt offended at all. And with my problems I tend to get offended very easily lol Yeah I am also "moderately" or even "slightly" affected and can posse as normal but in fact life is more miserable with this (in plain terms).

@outdamnspot I also get paradoxical and even scary reactions to psych meds. They are no good in my opinion, but there are exceptions such as bupropion or imipramine. Once I took Valium and it gave me a panic attack that lasted hours (I never get panic attacks). I encourage you to look into what caledonia and I suggested.

 

[peggy-sue]

I think the friend I'm going to be staying with soon's OH is an Aspie.

The first time I met him was when they came to Manchester Airport to collect me.
Christine introduced Keith to me, and went on to introduce me to him..

He said huffily; "I know who she is. We came to collect her. Who else would it be?"

I thought to myself... "Whew, great, I know where I am with him."