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Conspiracy theory stuff, but interesting.

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
That's true about Donald Scott, some of the papers are discussed in the Skull Valley Incident book and he does name names. The scientists involved in developing such pathogens often published papers on what they were doing while cleverly concealing the true intent of their research. This is what Lo did.

To quote Nicolson, 'After all, it could prove to be interesting, and he might be able to even publish some of the work if he was clever not to reveal the real agenda behind the 'Day Lily'. He will just have to keep the important points secret from his scientific colleagues. This was done all the time by military scientists, so it should not be a problem. He was rarely allowed to publish in China, and the thought of seeing his name in print thrilled him. Thoughts of how to hide the real agenda and truth about the 'Day Lily' mycoplasma while publishing on the more academic points of the microorganism enthralled him. He would control the academic chess game, because he will be the only one that knows all of the facts behind the little mycoplasma. Dr. Lo hesistated and then smiled at the two men. He was weak and would do exactly what they wanted, even though he considered them of inferior intelligence and incapable of important decisions that could affect the future of mankind. One does not have to be evil to do evil, because good men only have to say nothing and do nothing.'

Not all people with CFS test positive for mycoplasma. I think most papers stated that around 50% of their patients tested positive. I tested negative. Nicolson recommended RedLabs to me. The sample should be tested within 24hrs and preferably refrigerated not frozen.

Maybe Scott is right about his theory, but maybe that only applies to the sites where they 'field tested' the
pathogen(s).....the documented outbreaks possibly. CFS might also be caused by pathogens that have not been weaponised and we really dont know whether current cases of CFS are related to the past outbreaks.

It does appear though that there was an effort to distract scientists/doctors away from mycoplasma testing. For instance, Lo published a paper in 1993 with Komaroff, Bell and Cheney stating that antibodies against mycoplasmas could not be detected in CFS patients. Lo knows that antibody based assays are not a suitable method of detecting mycoplasmas and he stated this in his own patent. He is dishonest.

This article states that Dr. Nicolson ‘notes that once a laboratory gets a reliable test in place (for mycoplasmas) the laboratory is often shut down. There are only a few labs left that test for mycoplasma as a result.......Dr. Nicolson finds that laboratories that test for mycoplasma are highly scrutinised by federal agencies and that may affect the way the labs test and report this type of infection.’ http://www.immed.org/infectious disease reports/InfectDiseaseReport06.11.09update/PHA_Nicolson_0709_v4.07.pdf
That's true about Donald Scott, some of the papers are discussed in the Skull Valley Incident book and he does name names. The scientists involved in developing such pathogens often published papers on what they were doing while cleverly concealing the true intent of their research. This is what Lo did.

To quote Nicolson, 'After all, it could prove to be interesting, and he might be able to even publish some of the work if he was clever not to reveal the real agenda behind the 'Day Lily'. He will just have to keep the important points secret from his scientific colleagues. This was done all the time by military scientists, so it should not be a problem. He was rarely allowed to publish in China, and the thought of seeing his name in print thrilled him. Thoughts of how to hide the real agenda and truth about the 'Day Lily' mycoplasma while publishing on the more academic points of the microorganism enthralled him. He would control the academic chess game, because he will be the only one that knows all of the facts behind the little mycoplasma. Dr. Lo hesistated and then smiled at the two men. He was weak and would do exactly what they wanted, even though he considered them of inferior intelligence and incapable of important decisions that could affect the future of mankind. One does not have to be evil to do evil, because good men only have to say nothing and do nothing.'

Not all people with CFS test positive for mycoplasma. I think most papers stated that around 50% of their patients tested positive. I tested negative. Nicolson recommended RedLabs to me. The sample should be tested within 24hrs and preferably refrigerated not frozen.

Maybe Scott is right about his theory, but maybe that only applies to the sites where they 'field tested' the
pathogen(s).....the documented outbreaks possibly. CFS might also be caused by pathogens that have not been weaponised and we really dont know whether current cases of CFS are related to the past outbreaks.

It does appear though that there was an effort to distract scientists/doctors away from mycoplasma testing. For instance, Lo published a paper in 1993 with Komaroff, Bell and Cheney stating that antibodies against mycoplasmas could not be detected in CFS patients. Lo knows that antibody based assays are not a suitable method of detecting mycoplasmas and he stated this in his own patent. He is dishonest.

This article states that Dr. Nicolson ‘notes that once a laboratory gets a reliable test in place (for mycoplasmas) the laboratory is often shut down. There are only a few labs left that test for mycoplasma as a result.......Dr. Nicolson finds that laboratories that test for mycoplasma are highly scrutinised by federal agencies and that may affect the way the labs test and report this type of infection.’ http://www.immed.org/infectious disease reports/InfectDiseaseReport06.11.09update/PHA_Nicolson_0709_v4.07.pdf

There is a lab in sydney that tests for mycoplasma via pcr that I have twice tested strong positive with. Australian Biologics.

So if its true that this mycoplasma developed by Lo is a big player in many cases of cfs and he is now head of an organisation supposedly looking for the cause of cfs. He isn't actually looking for the answer at all but in fact, actively trying to keep it hidden.

Do I have this right?
 
Messages
81
There is a lab in sydney that tests for mycoplasma via pcr that I have twice tested strong positive with. Australian Biologics.

So if its true that this mycoplasma developed by Lo is a big player in many cases of cfs and he is now head of an organisation supposedly looking for the cause of cfs. He isn't actually looking for the answer at all but in fact, actively trying to keep it hidden.

Do I have this right?

Nicolson reported that they did not find the Mfi pathogen in civilian cases of CFS (not connected to GWI). However he did find CFS patients infected with M. fermentans and other mycoplasma species. It's entirely possible that that if there is something to hide Lo will keep it hidden, just like he did with GWI. He has already demonstrated this. He will never be able to disclose what his superiors don't want him to. Lo is a first class scientist but the only reason such people keep their jobs (or get promoted) is by obeying their superiors.
 
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barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
Anything is possible, but not necessarily probable. Yeah, sometimes it's fun reading these stories. The problem is when we intermix these terms to prove something, especially when it comes to research and science.

"Possible,” “Plausible,” “Probable,” and “Proven” are terms used to indicate rough degrees of statistical probability of something happening or some proposition being true. (My use of the “probable” here reflects the vernacular. When we say that something is probably true, we don’t mean that it has just any level of statistical probability, but specifically that it is quite likely to be true.)

The terms do reflect an ascending order of probability (and a nested one – anything that is plausible is also possible; anything proven is also probable, plausible, and possible), though not in a numerically precise way. They represent a sort of qualitative statistics. When we can realistically indicate precise probabilities, that is obviously a useful thing, but even a rough sense of degree of probability is far more useful than no such sense at all.

Errors in thinking arise whenever we jump up this ascending ladder of probability without evidence, or without sufficient evidence (though admittedly, knowing what counts as sufficient evidence is always tricky business). Just because it’s possible that Bigfoot could be running around the Pacific Northwest or elsewhere doesn’t make it plausible, much less probable or proven.

One of my favorite conspiricy theories which I have posted before, is that ME/CFS is caused by alien abductions.:eek: It looks like this site has been edited to make it more "scientific" since the last time I visited.
http://www.abduct.com/features/f10.php
The symptoms of alien abduction:
http://aliencontactandhumanevolution.com/home/symptoms-alien-abduction

As an aside there are theories that people reporting alien abduction are actually experiencing "sleep paralysis".

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/06/s...it-sleep-paralysis.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Apologies for this lengthy somewhat off topic post. I find things like this fascinating. Ask me the time and I might explain how a clock works!:D
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
Anything is possible, but not necessarily probable. Yeah, sometimes it's fun reading these stories. The problem is when we intermix these terms to prove something, especially when it comes to research and science.

"Possible,” “Plausible,” “Probable,” and “Proven” are terms used to indicate rough degrees of statistical probability of something happening or some proposition being true. (My use of the “probable” here reflects the vernacular. When we say that something is probably true, we don’t mean that it has just any level of statistical probability, but specifically that it is quite likely to be true.)

The terms do reflect an ascending order of probability (and a nested one – anything that is plausible is also possible; anything proven is also probable, plausible, and possible), though not in a numerically precise way. They represent a sort of qualitative statistics. When we can realistically indicate precise probabilities, that is obviously a useful thing, but even a rough sense of degree of probability is far more useful than no such sense at all.

Errors in thinking arise whenever we jump up this ascending ladder of probability without evidence, or without sufficient evidence (though admittedly, knowing what counts as sufficient evidence is always tricky business). Just because it’s possible that Bigfoot could be running around the Pacific Northwest or elsewhere doesn’t make it plausible, much less probable or proven.

One of my favorite conspiricy theories which I have posted before, is that ME/CFS is caused by alien abductions.:eek: It looks like this site has been edited to make it more "scientific" since the last time I visited.
http://www.abduct.com/features/f10.php
The symptoms of alien abduction:

http://aliencontactandhumanevolution.com/home/symptoms-alien-abduction

As an aside there are some theories that people reporting alien abduction are actually caused be "sleep paralysis.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/06/s...it-sleep-paralysis.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Apologies for this lengthy somewhat off topic post. I find things like this fascinating. Ask me the time and I might explain how a clock works!:D
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
I ran into an interesting scenario a few years ago. We had some serious criminals in the neighborhood and were trying to get them removed. Easier said than done unfortunately.

These criminals decided to use a mentally
challenged individual to even the score. They convinced this person that they were his real friends and he needed to "take care" of those trying to get the criminals removed.

During a conversation I had with this
mentally challenged individual, he actually
indicated he was considering killing someone based on what he'd been told by
his new best friends.

Bottom line ... if these criminals knew to use a mentally challenged person to carry out their agenda, who else knows to do this ?
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
What I was trying to say is where else are unsuspecting pawns being used to carry out the agendas of those up to no good.
aka evil doers. ; )

Just by limiting our access to medical info
they left us in a vulnerable position. Thankfully the web is making more info available.
 

overtrain

Medical Mafia needs to die via this virus.
@
I would like to read that quote, but also note that quotes taken out of context can be dangerous. I like to look at the source materials. Rather than quote a paragraph, I try to read the whole book. Its one reason things are progressing slowly for my own book, but when something is this important you don't want to get it wrong.

Has anyone guessed what discipline I was writing about before, the one that is full of babble but not psych? I need some sleep, I might write about it when I wake up. Anyone who has read a lot of what I write has probably already guessed though.
@Alex: just found quote
"I am still more frightened by the fearless power in the eyes of my fellow psychiatrists than by the powerless fear in the eyes of their patients." R.D. Laing in WISDOM, MADNESS, AND FOLLY THE MAKING OF A PSYCHIATRIST 1985
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Anything is possible, but not necessarily probable. Yeah, sometimes it's fun reading these stories. The problem is when we intermix these terms to prove something, especially when it comes to research and science.



One of my favorite conspiricy theories which I have posted before, is that ME/CFS is caused by alien abductions.:eek: It looks like this site has been edited to make it more "scientific" since the last time I visited.
http://www.abduct.com/features/f10.php
The symptoms of alien abduction:

http://aliencontactandhumanevolution.com/home/symptoms-alien-abduction

As an aside there are some theories that people reporting alien abduction are actually caused be "sleep paralysis.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/06/s...it-sleep-paralysis.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Apologies for this lengthy somewhat off topic post. I find things like this fascinating. Ask me the time and I might explain how a clock works!:D

I use the alien abduction argument as a counter example to babble quite a lot. Clearly aliens could explain everything .. and anything. Its right up there with Santa's magical elves.

Having said that I do think alien life, even intelligent life, is so likely that its close to certainty. What is not certain is they are here. Space is not just big, its so vast the both the cost and time of interstellar travel are prohibitive using our current understanding of physics. You could do it with automated systems though.
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
@

@Alex: just found quote
"I am still more frightened by the fearless power in the eyes of my fellow psychiatrists than by the powerless fear in the eyes of their patients." R.D. Laing in WISDOM, MADNESS, AND FOLLY THE MAKING OF A PSYCHIATRIST 1985

We all know of the tendency for power over others to corrupt.

It would seem that power over others also has a tendency to delude as well.

It seems that even among the elite there is little flexibility and openness of thinking.

Go figure.
 

overtrain

Medical Mafia needs to die via this virus.
We all know of the tendency for power over others to corrupt.

It would seem that power over others also has a tendency to delude as well.

It seems that even among the elite there is little flexibility and openness of thinking.

Go figure.
From my experience, many elites are raised within certain frameworks. One is (& again, not ALL, but many elites) that individuals are to blame for their troubles. "Their" issues aren't related to societal structures. It's all on the individual to pull himherself up... Elites do tend to stay in the same income bracket, whether ivy league or clubs or neighborhoods. They marry into similar income brackets. If someone surrounds herself with people who generally have the same experiences and outlook, how would she break out? Remember, too, the subtle social sanctions for "flexibility". The more one breaks out, the more overt those sanctions can become. Why should elites have to change a thing when they aren't forced to? They and everyone they know benefit in their world via their way of doing things.

These are, of course, generalizations, but they closely align with my direct contact with elites while I was growing up. I broke out due to a series of odd events, not the least of which was being born 'too' sensitive. I see both sides, and more than two sides.

So how does any of this change? Culture jamming, one on one contact, setting aside judgement as much as possible when interacting so as to not further alienate 'the other', education, imagination, art, travel, law, etc. really, i don't know. But i do think in most cases power cedes to nothing other than more power. But that might be fallacious binary thinking.
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
@overtrain

I've become well aware of elite social structures over the years.

My daughter and son went to an elite school for the gifted in grade school where there were many wealthy families.
Then my daughter opted and was accepted into a 2 year high school program. She graduated when she was 15 and the academic world has been her oyster simply because they use that early high school grad as their guide to her worth. She's now doing a post grad degree at Cambridge.
My son who went to the same gifted grade school (and is as bright as his sister) then opted for a mini-school program in music during high school has not had people, schools and employers fawn all over him in quite the same way.

I would expect elites to at least employ the same amount of skepticism about what they've been taught as any average person.
 

leela

Senior Member
Messages
3,290
From my experience, many elites are raised within certain frameworks. One is (& again, not ALL, but many elites) that individuals are to blame for their troubles.

Yes, this would be the weird Calvinist framework, which has bizarrely stuck in the same way psychiatry has stuck, despite making no sense at all.
 

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
Messages
3,043
Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
See recent colossal arrogance Boris Johnson came out with regarding "IQ", ye gods!!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/06/boris-johnson-missed-point-iq

as I've kept telling folk for ages, "smarts", understanding is vastly more important than raw intellect.
Just cause you can figure out how to do something doesn't mean you have the wisdom to figure out how to best employ it, or not at all!


as for aliens, yeah can be used to explain anything etc etc, but I have seen "UFOs" up very close.
I make no claim as to their origins etc, I and several hundred others, saw three vehicles, solid objects (as they occluded what they flew in front of), doing aerial manoeuvres at extremely low level and completely impossible from our understanding (right angled turns, instant acceleration etc), with no sound.
so, you either have mass telepathy as that's the ONLY way so many folk could have exactly the same delusion over such a huge area (evidence for mass telepathy, please, psychs, hm?)
or someone, Human or other, has technology very far ahead of what is known
or it is something "beyond our ken"
you pays your money and you takes your frame of reference :p
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
See recent colossal arrogance Boris Johnson came out with regarding "IQ", ye gods!!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/06/boris-johnson-missed-point-iq

as I've kept telling folk for ages, "smarts", understanding is vastly more important than raw intellect.
Just cause you can figure out how to do something doesn't mean you have the wisdom to figure out how to best employ it, or not at all!


as for aliens, yeah can be used to explain anything etc etc, but I have seen "UFOs" up very close.
I make no claim as to their origins etc, I and several hundred others, saw three vehicles, solid objects (as they occluded what they flew in front of), doing aerial manoeuvres at extremely low level and completely impossible from our understanding (right angled turns, instant acceleration etc), with no sound.
so, you either have mass telepathy as that's the ONLY way so many folk could have exactly the same delusion over such a huge area (evidence for mass telepathy, please, psychs, hm?)
or someone, Human or other, has technology very far ahead of what is known
or it is something "beyond our ken"
you pays your money and you takes your frame of reference :p


While we need people who are intelligent we need people who are wise, good and kind more. They seem to be less abundant as there is less external reward.

As far as the UFO's go is it possibly military drones? They can be quite small and agile.
I know that they have been making clothing that makes one invisible for some time.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
See recent colossal arrogance Boris Johnson came out with regarding "IQ", ye gods!!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/06/boris-johnson-missed-point-iq

as I've kept telling folk for ages, "smarts", understanding is vastly more important than raw intellect.
Just cause you can figure out how to do something doesn't mean you have the wisdom to figure out how to best employ it, or not at all!


as for aliens, yeah can be used to explain anything etc etc, but I have seen "UFOs" up very close.
I make no claim as to their origins etc, I and several hundred others, saw three vehicles, solid objects (as they occluded what they flew in front of), doing aerial manoeuvres at extremely low level and completely impossible from our understanding (right angled turns, instant acceleration etc), with no sound.
so, you either have mass telepathy as that's the ONLY way so many folk could have exactly the same delusion over such a huge area (evidence for mass telepathy, please, psychs, hm?)
or someone, Human or other, has technology very far ahead of what is known
or it is something "beyond our ken"
you pays your money and you takes your frame of reference :p

Or to sum it up in a simple line: Wisdom is more important than intelligence.

Knowledge is about facts. Intelligence is about the ability to reason. Wisdom is about having a network of understanding so that you can reason with everything in proper and appropriate context.

Just my three cent piece' worth.
 

rosie26

Senior Member
Messages
2,446
Location
NZ
Invisible clothing eek.
I wonder if one day we will be able to decide if we want to be invisible before we go out.
We would be bumping into other invisible's though.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
On the history channel on tv the last couple of weeks they have had shows about JFK and F.Roosevelt, i find it interesting how their personal physicians kept both of these men going on a cocktail of drugs, hormones and pain killers etc so they could function and get through their work. JFK with adrenal insufficiency, hypothyroidism and probably more. Then Roosevelt with his polio.

Now wouldnt it have been great for us to have these men in power in the 1980s and 1990s when the whole cfs thing kicked off. Im sure these men would have had a personal empathy for us that could have had descent research funds given towards cfs/me, and maybe they also both had cfs?? It was abit of a deja vu watching how these men were being treated to help them to keep functioning, mm pain killers, hormones, abit of this and abit of that. Maybe i should be the president.

This thread mentioning conspiracy theories, it has to have JFK in it??
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
Hi Heapsreal,

The spread of infectious diseases is one of the specializations I have under my regional scientist cap .... The transmission of hiv to the western world has been traced back to a gay international airline steward who was travelling between the Congo and the US. The virus has been found in primate populations deep within the Congo ......

That is why it was first labelled a male homosexual disease.....

And the spread of hiv in Africa, again stems out of the Congo and was first spread along the long haul trucking routes. This was because truckies had multiple overnight stops during their long journeys and they basically had girlfriends in every town along the way ......

Conspiracy theories are interesting, but personally I don't think our governments are really that smart ....
 
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barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
The book Emotional Intelligence delves into the subject of intelligence beyond IQ scores or academic achievement. This type of thinking has unfortunately, been underrated.

Conspiracy theories are interesting, but personally I don't think our governments are really that smart
.

I've always thought this.:lol:
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
The book Emotional Intelligence delves into the subject of intelligence beyond IQ scores or academic achievement. This type of thinking has unfortunately, been underrated.

I've always thought this.:lol:

Governments in general are incredibly stupid. This does not mean the individuals are stupid though. It s a lowest common denominator kind of thing - they have so many weakest links in general. Having said that governments are darn good at keeping secrets. Given they do something so very stupid they have to cover it up they succeed much more often than not.