Martine McCutcheon opens up about the seven years she suffered from cfs and depression

[Richie]

Just as an additional thought , some depression esp in the elderly may be due to e.g. b12 or folate probs. Alongside b1 and b3 these are recognised probs in some CFS/ME diagnosees, as you probably know. A deficiency of any or more might cause both an affective disorder and a mitochondrial dysfunction, which places any over strict depression/organic fatigue dichotomy under scrutiny.at least. while on no way compromising ideas of organic fatigue.

A google on depression and mitochondria will give loads of results, again questioning strict dichotomies of depression vs. fatigue. But that does not mean that organic fatigue is actually depression, it may mean, the reverse - that much depression has at least elements of organic fatigue and mitochondrial failure, which may make for far more effective treatments..

Ironic of course that the above organic work is being done in those with mainly mental symptoms, while CFS/ME peoplel who are marked by much physical fatigue and other physical symptoms are being treated with CBT and momolithic GET Just ridiculously ironic.

Interesting to test mito function in depressives after exercise and compare with CFS/ME diagnosees, of course.

 

[MeSci]

Just as an additional thought , some depression esp in the elderly may be due to e.g. b12 or folate probs. Alongside b1 and b3 these are recognised probs in some CFS/ME diagnosees, as you probably know. A deficiency of any or more might cause both an affective disorder and a mitochondrial dysfunction, which places any over strict depression/organic fatigue dichotomy under scrutiny.at least. while on no way compromising ideas of organic fatigue.

A google on depression and mitochondria will give loads of results, again questioning strict dichotomies of depression vs. fatigue. But that does not mean that organic fatigue is actually depression, it may mean, the reverse - that much depression has at least elements of organic fatigue and mitochondrial failure, which may make for far more effective treatments..

Ironic of course that the above organic work is being done in those with mainly mental symptoms, while CFS/ME peoplel who are marked by much physical fatigue and other physical symptoms are being treated with CBT and momolithic GET Just ridiculously ironic.

Interesting to test mito function in depressives after exercise and compare with CFS/ME diagnosees, of course.

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say, but the subject matter has strayed substantially from the title of this thread! There have been discussions on most of your points in dedicated threads. Why not do some keyword searches to find and contribute to those threads? I'm sure your input will be very welcome!

 

[Richie]

Well the subject matter is MM, fatigue and depression so I am substantially still on the subject.
That said I''ll ferret around as you suggest.

 

[Mij]

@Richie

http://www.msforum.net/Site/ViewPDF...5-21D5-4C06-879F-9C053841B5FF&doctype=Article

Furthermore, it has recently been
shown that a higher cardiorespiratory fitness is
associated with better cerebrovascular function and
cognition in MS patients, suggesting that exercise
could play an important role in the preservation of
brain function in MS patients.

It has also been
suggested that exercise might have a disease-
modifying anti-inflammatory effect, and therefore
perhaps has the potential to slow down the disease
process.
This does NOT apply to ME.

 

[Richie]

Mij
If you define ME as such, then that would be correct, but that is circular reasoning.
My question would be how many with a DIAGNOSIS of ME and/or CFS show this negative response to exercise (very many/majority I imagine) , how many of these with poor exercise response have actual myalgic encephalomyelitis , how many really have myalgic encephalopathy, how many Lyme' etc.
Otherwise, ME is reduced in this context at least to meaning a specific type of post exertional fatigue/adverse response to exercise, with no questions asked as to different degrees of impairment in true ME, relation of impairment to inflammation in true ME, occurence of similar post exertional malaise in other conditons with or without myelitis etc.
To ignore these issues is imo to settle with the circular ME=PEM=ME, which is not a strong position.
Has anyone actually reliably demonstrated encephalomyelitis in a group and THEN subjected them to exercise response tests without using the circular reasoning that if they respond in a specific negative they must have ME. Has anybody correlated degree of inflammation with degree of PEM? People look at lesion activity in MS and compare it with symptoms. Why not in ME?
I am not disputing the existence of patients who repsond badly to exercise . It is a cardinal marker in many with adiagnosi sof ME. I'm just asking whether the equation of this phenomenon with actual ME and possibly only ME is robust.
Only when ME patients are properly identified as having myalgic encephalomyelitis can anything be reliably about their biology. Otherwise we may be dealing with mixed cohorts, (even if the PEM is present in all).

I may be wrong but are the studies there where actual encephalomyelitis has been identified prior to exercise testing??

 

[Kate_UK]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ns-weight-gain-battle-fatigue-illness-ME.html

 

[Guido den Broeder]

The illness made me lose all my muscle tone and my skin became loose and dry. I had the body of an old woman.

ME does not do that to your skin. Typically, it will rain comments on how well you look, and people think you're younger.

 

[peggy-sue]

It does when you're my age - I'm all haggard and grey and droopy.

 

[alex3619]

ME does not do that to your skin. Typically, it will rain comments on how well you look, and people think you're younger.

That was my experience. You look younger than you are etc. was something I used to hear. I don't hear it any more now that I am post 50 with grey hair.

Someone like MM if she has ME may look good in many respects, and may strive to continue looking good, but the real test will be in time. Someone with ME who goes back to a hectic schedule during a time of partial remission is likely to relapse, often badly. I hope this doesn't happen to her.

 

[peggy-sue]

I always looked older when I was very young, and (before I got ill) I looked young for my years.

I did a bit of overdoing the other week, a friend took a pogtograph of me and I could not believe how old and bad I looked.

I am a bit underweight - but my face was puffed up like the moon, grey, blotchy and collapsing under gravity.

 

[Firestormm]

I often find it interesting how we all react differently to comments made in the press:

She said: 'The illness made me lose all my muscle tone and my skin became loose and dry. I had the body of an old woman. I would think, "That's not me".

'Because ME is an illness that affects the brain and nervous system, your hormones are all over the place, which makes you prone to bloating and sporadic and sudden weight gain and loss.'

I read that as being rather a good comment - not that I am a female of course - but given who it is saying it and as I have heard it repeated a fair amount by other ladies especially the second paragraph, e.g. raging hormones playing havoc and the weight gain and loss.

Of course whether or not the hormones are responsible I wouldn't know. Could be prescriptions. Could be lack of exercise ability. Could be a combination of many factors.

I am not longer as svelt-like as I used to be. More stout than the size I was - and even in remission I found it terribly difficult to shift the weight I had gained. Then again I think genetics are against me at least in part - that's my excuse!

 

[MeSci]

The illness made me lose all my muscle tone and my skin became loose and dry. I had the body of an old woman.

ME does not do that to your skin. Typically, it will rain comments on how well you look, and people think you're younger.

It can certainly make you lose your muscle tone - it did that to me, but I got it back with the diet-and-supplement regime I started last year.

As for skin, looseness and dryness could be due to dehydration, which a lot of us get, I think, and/or an odd condition which some people have noted (and even posted photos) which I can't think how to describe right now but involves lots of very fine parallel furrows. I think it has a specific name. I think I have had this at times. Again, diet and/or supplements may help with this.

 

[peggy-sue]

I thought we had problems with collagen and elastin...?
I was sure that is what is behind the loss of fingerpads bouncing back after they have been pressed.
Mine stay indented for over an hour. I gave up timing after that.

 

[Bob]

The illness made me lose all my muscle tone and my skin became loose and dry. I had the body of an old woman.

ME does not do that to your skin. Typically, it will rain comments on how well you look, and people think you're younger.

I think it's a fair subjective description. However we might look on the outside, many of us subjectively feel like we're 80 years old, and we see our bodies becoming unfit and changing shape. Muscle tone is lost and skin consistency can change.

But overall, I don't think it's a helpful article. Probably more unhelpful than helpful.

 

[MeSci]

I thought we had problems with collagen and elastin...?
I was sure that is what is behind the loss of fingerpads bouncing back after they have been pressed.
Mine stay indented for over an hour. I gave up timing after that.

Yes, I have had problems with persistent indentation, and it has made clothes very uncomfortably tight sometimes. I actually first had the indentation problem long before getting ME, notably on the insides of my elbows from carrying shopping bags, and it hurt. I had to stop wearing conventional bras as they cut into my flesh so much, which was quite a problem when I was overweight as I had a lot of weight to carry in that area, which itself caused pain. Things have been much easier since I shed that extra weight!

But I don't think I had skin problems like that on my face, hence people would still comment on how well I looked!

 

[Esther12]

Whatever the narrative being promoted, I don't like it when it goes beyond the available evidence. Maybe some people with ME have good evidence for these sorts of different problems, I don't think it's fair to say that 'ME is an illness that...' for almost anything.

Sadly, Martine McCutcheon's claims are still probably more reasonable than the past ones we've had from Wessely, White and all. [edit: This was a bit of a moody post].

 

[Bob]

Here's some (I don't think it's all of it) of the Hello feature that the Daily Mail article refers to:
Exclusive: Martine McCutcheon reveals how she has got her body back to its best
04 NOVEMBER 2013
http://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/2013110415461/martine-mccutcheon-exclusive-interview/

And here's a previous Hello article that I don't think I'd seen before (I might have forgotten it):
Martine McCutcheon thanks fans and says she is 'on top' of depression
22 SEPTEMBER 2013
http://www.hellomagazine.com/celebr...cutcheon-depression-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/


There are mixed messages (some helpful and some unhelpful) like all the other articles.

 

[Bob]

Action for ME have a short feature/interview with Martine McCutcheon in their latest members' magazine:
http://www.actionforme.org.uk/Resources/Action for ME/InterAction/InterAction 85/ia85bekindtoyourself.pdf

It describes some of her symptoms in more detail.

 

[Valentijn]

Much better than the confused crap in the tabloids.

 

[MeSci]

Much better than the confused crap in the tabloids.

Nothing about exercise. I wonder whether the exercise stuff/video was dreamt up by her PR people.