Journeyman
Senior Member
- Messages
- 193
Having suffered from acne and gynecomastia for years I was able to better understand why after getting my 23&Me test results in May this year. After paying a lot of attention to understanding and addressing my methylation shortcomings I've more recently started paying attention to the detox panel results where I have a number of heterozygous and one homozygous mutation on genes that are all responsible for xenobiotic metabolism. Per this table:
I've recently been exploring various articles on xenoestrogens which has led me to looking at DIM and I3C as supplement options but I have a number of remaining queries which I'm sure the more knowledgeable here might have some answers to.
Firstly, I'd rather address the removal of xenoestrogens in a natural and cost effective way through diet. That is, by the incorporation of ample amounts of lightly stir fried cruciferous vegetables (cabbage/brussel sprouts etc.) However the usual question then arises: what quantity do I need to achieve x amount reduction in xenoestrogens. I've not been able to find a clear answer, however this article: http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/phytochemicals/i3c/i3crefs.html#ref30 has helped somewhat. It suggests that firstly I3C is a precursor to DIM, and that you need 3 or more times I3C to get the equivalent effect as DIM. It also suggests that glucobrassica is the glucosilonate of interest when looking to obtain DIM or I3C. So it looks like 44gm (half a cup) of brussel sprouts gives 2.4gm/mg of total glucosinolate, of which 10% is likely to be glucobrassica. Therefore 2.4gm x 44gm (105gm of total glucosinolate) will be giving about 10gm of glucobrassica which then goes through processing in the body to yield _some_ amount of DIM.
Indolplex (Md Nutritionals) gives 20gm of 'bioavailable' DIM per capsule. So the one query left here is how much DIM is my body likely to yield from that 10gm dose of glucobrassica, and in broader terms is it likely to be hopeless in terms of getting a therapeutic dose (dose that actually changes hormones) If this is the case then how does that reconcile with the seemingly common knowledge that populations eating these vegetables have significantly better xenoestrogen profiles (or am I mistaking that for cancer risk which could be due to all the other phytonutrients in these vegetables..)
So the next question is what kind of estrogen reduction is likely for a given dosage of DIM. Naturally if we're all going to start playing with our hormones it might be helpful to know what kind of dosage is needed to achieve a certain result.... This is one article I found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15623462?dopt=Abstract
however I can't find the actual results. It seems that anywhere from 100-400gm of DIM is recommended by way of a therapeutic dosage for men, but wheres the data to show what kind of estrogen reduction correlates with dosage level... If anyone can shed light on this I'm sure many forum users would be grateful - I know I will .-)
I've recently been exploring various articles on xenoestrogens which has led me to looking at DIM and I3C as supplement options but I have a number of remaining queries which I'm sure the more knowledgeable here might have some answers to.
Firstly, I'd rather address the removal of xenoestrogens in a natural and cost effective way through diet. That is, by the incorporation of ample amounts of lightly stir fried cruciferous vegetables (cabbage/brussel sprouts etc.) However the usual question then arises: what quantity do I need to achieve x amount reduction in xenoestrogens. I've not been able to find a clear answer, however this article: http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/phytochemicals/i3c/i3crefs.html#ref30 has helped somewhat. It suggests that firstly I3C is a precursor to DIM, and that you need 3 or more times I3C to get the equivalent effect as DIM. It also suggests that glucobrassica is the glucosilonate of interest when looking to obtain DIM or I3C. So it looks like 44gm (half a cup) of brussel sprouts gives 2.4gm/mg of total glucosinolate, of which 10% is likely to be glucobrassica. Therefore 2.4gm x 44gm (105gm of total glucosinolate) will be giving about 10gm of glucobrassica which then goes through processing in the body to yield _some_ amount of DIM.
Indolplex (Md Nutritionals) gives 20gm of 'bioavailable' DIM per capsule. So the one query left here is how much DIM is my body likely to yield from that 10gm dose of glucobrassica, and in broader terms is it likely to be hopeless in terms of getting a therapeutic dose (dose that actually changes hormones) If this is the case then how does that reconcile with the seemingly common knowledge that populations eating these vegetables have significantly better xenoestrogen profiles (or am I mistaking that for cancer risk which could be due to all the other phytonutrients in these vegetables..)
So the next question is what kind of estrogen reduction is likely for a given dosage of DIM. Naturally if we're all going to start playing with our hormones it might be helpful to know what kind of dosage is needed to achieve a certain result.... This is one article I found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15623462?dopt=Abstract
however I can't find the actual results. It seems that anywhere from 100-400gm of DIM is recommended by way of a therapeutic dosage for men, but wheres the data to show what kind of estrogen reduction correlates with dosage level... If anyone can shed light on this I'm sure many forum users would be grateful - I know I will .-)