Niacin and Methyl Donors

[ttt]

I'm COMT++, so I'm watching my methyl donors, but I've been told it's important to add SAMe, even though it's a methyl donor. But I've also been told that niacin is great for mopping up excess methyl donors. So I've started taking niacin, but I'm wondering -- am I just undoing the benefit of the methyl donors I'm taking, such as SAMe, methylfolate, and other important methyl donors?

 

[triffid113]

I wouldn't worry about niacin - it and B2 are heavily required by the Kreb cycle to make ATP and you definitely need that. IMHO ideally you would want a small dose twice a day, like say 25mg twice a day (basically a low dose active B complex twice a day).

I would never take SAMe because if you are low in SAMe it is almost 100% because you are not recycling homocysteine properly (and so taking more SAMe is going to further raise homocysteine, a neurotoxin). You can get your homocysteine measured, a $60 test. Indeed SAMe levels are used asI a feedback to the methyl cycle so there can be value in taking SAMe just briefly to "prime the pump". IMHO no good would come from adding SAMe to a permanent protocol. To increase methylation, base nutrients are B complex, and TMG. If that is not enough, then support nutrients are needed like zinc,(&copper), magnesium, D3, anti-oxidants. Potassium is needed if you use active B's.

I am COMT +/+ and I can tolerate all the methyls I want. So...I do not believe the medical profession knows very much yet about how these genes work IN COMBINATION. I am also CBS +/+ and supposedly would have low homocysteine, yet when I started, mine was high. It is important to test. The genetic interpretations you are given do not apply to everyone

 

[ttt]

Thanx, triffid113! Both Yasko and my current doc keep pushing SAMe on me, cause mine is really low, and it doesn't seem to be going up. I don't imagine it will be a permanent thing. And my homocysteine is actually low.

But I'm just not really understanding what happens when niacin mops up methyl donors -- if it "ruins" what we need from the methyl donors, like SAMe, methylfolate, etc. Given the number of supplements I'm taking, I'm sure some of them are working at odds with others, and I'm worried about that with niacin, although I do like its mellowing effects, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing with it, how it's affecting other supplements, etc.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Indeed SAMe levels are used asI a feedback to the methyl cycle so there can be value in taking SAMe just briefly to "prime the pump".

What do you consider to be briefly?

 

[triffid113]

What do you consider to be briefly?

Oh, I dunno. I am willing to bet that most things don't add up to problems if taken less than a month.
I personally would not take more than 1 box/bottle or whatever because technically 'priming' is only needed one time. Of course that's if everything else is in place. You may need to re-prime if you haven't taken all the cofactors needed for methylation, you know?

Anyway, raised homocysteine is not one of those things that is going to kill you immediately...it increases your risk of cardiovascular event...but these things happen over time. So I am just saying I would not take it as an ongoing protocol...you raise the odds for a cardiovascular problem and keep them raised and eventually the odds win.

 

[triffid113]

Thanx, triffid113! Both Yasko and my current doc keep pushing SAMe on me, cause mine is really low, and it doesn't seem to be going up. I don't imagine it will be a permanent thing. And my homocysteine is actually low.

But I'm just not really understanding what happens when niacin mops up methyl donors -- if it "ruins" what we need from the methyl donors, like SAMe, methylfolate, etc. Given the number of supplements I'm taking, I'm sure some of them are working at odds with others, and I'm worried about that with niacin, although I do like its mellowing effects, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing with it, how it's affecting other supplements, etc.

Well you need niacin for life...it doesn't 'mop up methyls' and waste them-! it uses them to heal wounds and create energy and important things. So you need a certain amount, you just do not want to take high doses if you are methyl-challenged. Or if you NEED high doses then you find a way to make the methyls or find some other things you are doing that uses methyls and perhaps do less of that. (So I THINK I read that polyphenols use methyls too - and they do great things with them also, but it's a balancing act).

If you truly have low homocysteine (tested? or simply assumed by genetics?) then you want to look to two things right away IMHO: (1) how much protein do you eat? how much protein do to digest (like could you have bad enough digestion that even if you eat it, you are not absorbing enough of it?) and (2) yes, go ahead and supplement SAMe.

But retest as eventually (promptly?) your homocysteine should come up as a result and you don't want it high. (The medical profession usually only tests homocysteine every 2 months - they must think that's a good wait time for changes to stabilize out. I personally know homocysteine changes daily so ...? up to you. It might save you money to wait a bit to retest). 6.3 is ideal. I am willing to bet you eather do not eat enough methionine or you have bad gut issues. True?

 

[Gloria H]

Hi

Thanx, triffid113! Both Yasko and my current doc keep pushing SAMe on me, cause mine is really low, and it doesn't seem to be going up. I don't imagine it will be a permanent thing. And my homocysteine is actually low.

But I'm just not really understanding what happens when niacin mops up methyl donors -- if it "ruins" what we need from the methyl donors, like SAMe, methylfolate, etc. Given the number of supplements I'm taking, I'm sure some of them are working at odds with others, and I'm worried about that with niacin, although I do like its mellowing effects, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing with it, how it's affecting other supplements, etc.

Hi ttt,
I can't comment on your genetics, but wondered how much niacin you're taking and why. Is it just the amount in your b-complex. Are you just taking it cuz it makes you feel "mellow"? Blessings to you!