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The Naive Patient

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The Naive Patient
By Jody Smith


About 10 years ago I began looking online for information and answers about my mystery illness. At that time, my sleeping and waking hours were upside down. I would sleep most of the day and be up throughout the night till dawn. I spent many disturbing hours online looking for answers.

Back then, most of what I could find was pessimistic at best, terrifying at worst. Implications of heart disease and brain damage, irreversible hormonal disruption, malfunctions of the heretofore unheard of hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, and plenty more that I could not translate into language I could understand.

Confusion and growing despair

Most of what I found was written in such complex medical jargon that I couldn't tell what I was reading. I suspected that there might have been answers if only I could comprehend what I was reading.

But with no background in science or medicine, no knowledge of most of the terminology, and passing all this falteringly through a riddled ME/CFS brain, I would end up so exhausted and so depressed that stumbling off to bed was the only recourse for temporary relief.

Perhaps the only exception to the jumble of facts and conjecture came on the site of Phoenix Rising, written by Cort Johnson, with his smiling face on each article. His online presence was reassuring, but unfortunately he could not tell me what was wrong with me or what to do about it.

I continued plowing through all the material I could find for some months despite the heaviness this search burdened my already taxed mind, body and emotions with. Eventually I decided to give up a seemingly lost cause, as I reached a conclusion which I now realize to have been spectacularly naive.
I remember at one point laughing at myself, saying to my mother, "Who do I think I am, Sherlock Holmes? What makes me think I am going to come up with answers? I have no background or training. I don't know what I'm looking for. I mean, if there is an answer out there, my doctor will be the one to tell me."

My mom didn't know anymore about it than I did, and so she agreed that asking my doctor would indeed make sense.

Innocence waiting to be crushed

I had great faith in my family doctor back then. I hung on to this trust stubbornly, in the face of growing indications that he was not there for me.

We'd had a congenial relationship for about a decade before I got sick. He was in the avant garde of young doctors I thought, when our relationship first began. I didn't go to his office very often in the years before I became this ill, but I was always comfortable with him. I felt like he was on my side.

All that changed with ME/CFS. It was a gradual change, so gradual that at first I thought I was imagining things ... being too sensitive, too paranoid. But eventually there was no denying the complete reversal that had taken place.

Seven years ago, I came to see him, thinking I was having a stroke. He smirked and told me I wasn't. Then he took my blood pressure which was dangerously high, uncharacteristic of me, and the smirk disappeared. He sent me to the hospital for tests immediately.

He sent me for some blood tests and some other tests, which I'll give him points for, but when they all came back "normal" he had no suggestions. I guess I was lucky that if I asked for a referral to this specialist or that one, he always sent me.

But he made it clear that he knew nothing about this mystery condition, or where I might find possible treatment; and he was not going to try to learn about it. He was not going to help me.

He asked me one day if there were any things that helped my symptoms. I told him about the only thing that at that time made any difference. I said, "Going to bed."

He said, "Well, do that then."

I did not say, but felt this reaction strongly — "I am not going to spend the rest of my life in bed!"

My passion reaction, of course, had no basis in reality at that time. Every indication was that I would indeed spend the rest of my life in bed. The fact that my doctor was perfectly fine with that really stuck in my craw.

Some good treatment but it was a very mixed bag

The neurologists and the ophthalmologist that I asked for referrals to, treated me well. Though all they could do was perform tests whose results showed that I was right as rain.

One neurologist really touched me when he said that he wanted me to understand that just because he couldn't find anything did not necessarily mean that nothing was wrong. He said that this often happened, because the study of the brain was a relatively new science and they didn't know enough about it yet.

He also offered the interesting reassurance that the fact that since this thing was already of a long duration, it was probably not going to kill me, because if it were going to it probably would have by now.

I was actually comforted by this statement. And comforted by this response from one human being to another, so different from what I'd become used to from my own doctor.

I made an appointment with my family doctor after I'd gotten a letter requiring my participation in jury duty. I was completely crashed at that time.

Just going to my GP was enough to leave me wrung out and bedridden for days afterwards. It would have been impossible for me to drive the hour into the city and sit in a court room all day, even once. Who knew what kind of self-destruction would be awaiting me if I tried?

I took the letter in to my doctor, to get his official endorsement that I be released from this Herculean task.

This man who I thought knew me, knew the kind of person I was, knew the ordeal I was grappling with, looked at me with an unfriendly stare, and said, "And what possible reason is there that you can't do jury duty?"

I stared back. I said, "Well, for starters, I can't stay out of bed all day!"

Silence. I could see him back down a little. Saw the aggressive attitude ease just a bit. Saw his mind register — "Oh, right. This is her."

No apology for being rude. He did explain himself a bit, saying he'd had a number of relatively able-bodied people that morning waving similar letters, trying to shirk their duty. Like he had just implied I was doing.

This, incidentally, is when I got my "official" diagnosis of ME/CFS. Not because he'd been intensively doing the work, but because he had to write something on the form about jury duty, he had to name my condition. I suggested ME/CFS and he wrote it down.

After our tete-a-tete about jury duty, I never went to see him again. And when he retired a few years later, I was grimly delighted to hear he was gone, and this meant I could see the new doctor who would be taking his place.

I have been in once to meet the new guy, and he seemed like he was alright. He did not scoff, and he was honest about the fact that he didn't know if he could help me. He was also glad - perhaps relieved - to hear that I was seeing a naturopath who had been helping me to make progress.

My old doctor had been quite put out that I had been seeing a naturopath, and said in a sulky tone that "they use drugs too you know."

I didn't bother engaging with him about this, I no longer cared what he thought. I just took a deep breath, put a smile on my face and said, "She has been making me better."

Surprisingly he looked a bit abashed at that, and said, "Well ... we don't know everything."

I thought but did not say, "You're not kidding!"

For the most part, I have turned my back on conventional medicine. If I were to be in an accident or need surgery or some other urgent intervention, I'd go to a GP. But my experience over the last decade and then some has been that for anything chronic, I would be wasting my time.

What has your experience been with the conventional medical community?


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I'm reading Dr Maria Montessori's The Montessori Method at the mo.
Here's a quote (she wrote this in 1912) that I think fits with our problems with medics
Thus a young student may become a great doctor if he is spurred to his study by an interest which makes medicine his real vocation. But if he works in the hope of an inheritance, or of making a desirable marriage, or if indeed he is inspired by any material advantage, he will never become a true master or a great doctor, and the world will never make one step forward because of his work
my underlining.
I think (from my experience teaching BSL to medical students) that too many doctors are in it for "world" and not for medicine. And they fail at it because of that.
If only some doctors who get rewarded for their gross mediocrity would notice this.
 
).
People tell me they can't sleep, but when I see them on the internet spending lengthy hours researching, scrolling through lengthy articles and having lengthy conversations on forums, I can't quite believe they haven't tried staying off the computer (tv etc) - I mean literally, not turning the computer on at all.

One the biggest dangers for PWC's poor sleep is RF(radio frequency) radiation as you point out Victoria.
Computers and TV's have some RF radiation but mobile phones have much stronger radiation,and in particular cordless phones. The Docking station on a DECT(Direct Elecronic Cordless Telephone) is emitting RF radiation 24/7 even when the phone is not in use . Its acting like mobile phone mast inside your house and it will be affecting you all the time !

A lot of people have these in their bedrooms, which is the worst possible place, and after throwing them out, have recovered from insomnia and other fatigue problems which they have suffered from for years in many cases.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...phone-radiation-wrecks-your-sleep-771262.html

If you definitely,definitely, cant do without a cordless phone Siemens have now brought out an ECODECT range of cordless phones, which shuts down the docking base radiation when the phone is not in use. But dont have any cordless phones in your bedroom, they are bad news, especially for us. I still have the wired phone,Im already tired enough without the addition of this electrosmog from cordless phones.

http://lessradiation.co.uk/low-radiation-eco-dect-digital-cordless-phones/

(Sorry for going off the point of your blog Jody, just felt it was an important point to make)
 
Ok, so I understand that some are in it for the money and some for the recognition
but why are so many health professionals rude to patients ? This includes
those drawing blood, or nurses or those just delivering the meal trays.

Why the hateful attitudes ? Do they hate their jobs and take it out on patients
because we're vulnerable ?

fwiw, I've met some nice ones too. Sadly, I'm always shocked at this.
 
I think (from my experience teaching BSL to medical students) that too many doctors are in it for "world" and not for medicine. And they fail at it because of that.
If only some doctors who get rewarded for their gross mediocrity would notice this.

One of the many cases that gives the lie to the oft-repeated defence of high salaries in certain professions:

"We have to pay high salaries to get the best people."

Wrong. High salaries attract the greediest people, not the ones who really care about making a positive contribution. They would do it for much less.
 
Oh Jody, don't get me started. If I had to list all the cluelessly idiotic, worthless, and/or dangerous advice I've received from the MDs I consulted in the past, I'd be writing for an hour. So glad I steer clear of THOSE PEOPLE at this point. They are not qualified to treat anyone who doesn't fit into a neat category in their doctor manual, and we surely do not.

I stick to TCM--acupuncture and Evergreen herbs, see a naturopath for hormones and consult with the ocean for everything else.
"consult with the ocean for everything else."

DB, right here is why we love you!
 
but why are so many health professionals rude to patients ? This includes
those drawing blood, or nurses or those just delivering the meal trays.
From doctors it seems to arrive from having their pet theories about ME/CFS, and despising us as psychosomatic hypochondriacs who are wasting their extremely valuable time by having neurological or other symptoms. I get the impression they think they could be off curing cancer if they didn't have to deal with us :rolleyes:

Regarding nurses and phlebotomists, etc, I've found that they have vastly better attitudes in the Netherlands than they do in the US. Like, every single one of them :p My best guess is that they get paid better, they aren't over-worked, and they can easily go on benefits if they do get burnt out from being over-worked. Basically they seem very happy and unstressed, and seem to enjoy interacting with patients.

It's a little creepy at first :D
 
I think my panic comes from the fact that I'm constantly getting worse. That seems to be a rare thing for ME so in a way I feel like I must be doing something wrong.
I am also slowly, but steadily, getting worse. I don't think we have done anything wrong other than not be able to figure out what to do to stop it. Since the medical community cannot figure that out either, I don't think we can be blamed for that.
 
I am also slowly, but steadily, getting worse. I don't think we have done anything wrong other than not be able to figure out what to do to stop it. Since the medical community cannot figure that out either, I don't think we can be blamed for that.

Your words are encouraging. But I gave up my faith in doctors long ago so now everything is resting on my shoulders. At least that's how it feels.
 
I have had some really bad experiences with allopaths.

I was in college when I got the infection that started my ME. I returned to the health center twice to tell them that I was not recovering well. Both times I was told that since my temperature and white blood cell count were low (low, mind you, not normal), I could not be sick. Apparently, the only symptoms produced by any disease known to man are high temperature and high white cell count.

A few years later I was living in another city and developed the itching and burning in the arm pits and 'leg pits'. Since I now had a physical symptom beyond low energy/PEM/cognitive dysfunction, I decided to see another physician. I told him I had not felt well since a viral infection a few years before and wondered if this might be related. He told me that there was no such thing as a chronic viral infection. I wondered how he explained shingles and HIV, but thought it better for my brain not to ask.

I am now seeing an integrative physician who keeps up well on current medical information. (Would it be sexist of me to mention that she is also the first female physician I have seen?) She has or has had at least one other CFS patient, but I am still not sure how well informed she is about it. She was willing to take my word for it that I needed Xanax. She is good for general health issues, which we seem to have a lot of, such as adrenals, thyroid, vitamin D deficiency, liver problems, and sleep. I probably got better thyroid treatment from her than I would have from most endocrinologists.
 
Maybe they just feel better dealing with medical problems they can solve.

Everytime I have to go to the ER for kidney stones I find the nicest most
professional people you could imagine. They follow a standard protocol
and I get what I need. It's a win win for everyone. Ok, I ran into 1 snaffoo once but it's partly because
we didn't know I couldn't handle flouroquinolones.

As a perfectionist I'd be ornery if I had to face failures regularly. I definitely
couldn't work in the health care field because if how much patience is
required.

I like people so I'm trying my best to come up with justifiable reasons for
their behaviour. Honestly I can't say that I wouldn't be a jerk if I had to
do their jobs. More pay and better hours couldn't help me. lol.
 
"This man who I thought knew me, knew the kind of person I was, knew the ordeal I was grappling with, looked at me with an unfriendly stare, and said, “And what possible reason is there that you can’t do jury duty?” "

I think I must of been seeing your doctors brother, I had a dr who had exactly the same attitude, sadly I had him for 2-3 years and was fooled by him all that time as I kept telling myself that it was me probably being paranoid ,each time I started to think this dr had something against ME/CFS. (He'd so often cancel my appointments on me which I'd book 6 weeks in advance but came up with reasons but he did that so much that I started to wonder).

Then one day I went in very upset as I'd had a severe collapse while trying to get home from his visit quite recently before. No taxis were available in my local town for several hours this day, so I'd had to attempt to walk the very short distance home but couldnt make it. Was staggering up the road then looking drunk, trying to stay on my feet and about to faint and desperately needing to get home fast due to about to pass out (and it was cold and about to rain). I ended up collapsed in the gutter, ringing random businesses in the town close by, begging ANYONE (all these strangers) to come and get me to take me home, horrific nightmarish experience.

Anyway.. I was telling this dr about what had happened and his reply (which came out more like an order) "You arent disabled!!" This was even thou I'd been on a disability pension for several years and was seeing several CFS specialists. Turned out this shockening doctor wasnt even even telling me about my CFS specialists recommendations whenever they contacted him on what they wanted him doing with me (so he left me thinking I'd been abandoned by them too).

"I told him about the only thing that at that time made any difference: I said, “Going to bed.” He said, “Well, do that then.”

I did not say, but felt this reaction strongly – “I am not going to spend the rest of my life in bed!” My passion, of course, stood upon no basis in reality at that time. Every indication was that I would indeed spend the rest of my life in bed.

The fact that my doctor was perfectly fine with that really stuck in my craw."

Nods.. that truely sucks. I was doing that too and then cause I then wasnt complaining about so many symptoms due to doing nothing at all, one of my CFS specialists somehow came to the conclusion that I'd recovered!!! My activity level thou was something like only 5% of normal.

Another thing which happened is my CFS specialist wasnt listening to me. I told him for years I had orthostatic hypertension but he never took my BP while standing. Then one day he suddenly did it (i'd given up mentioning it by that time) and to his shock he saw my BP go up to 170 with 1 min of standing. He goes something like "oh this is what is wrong with you". I could only stand there is horror as I'd been telling him this was going on all along and he obviously didnt remember me going on about this so many times before in his clinic.

Other doctors have abandoned me, telling me they do not want to see me again as my case is too complex (one did that after ringing an ambulance one time on seeing me, not believing my very obvious symptoms were ME/CFS).

Ive had too many bad doctors experiences to tell. I went throu over 30 GPs (usually with just seeing one once) before I found one truely interested in me thou even she said I had to be under a CFS specialist too (which left other in my town who had been looking for a GP longer then I had for this illness unable to go to her either as this other didnt have a CFS specialist which fortunately I did).

In my own case Naturopathy hasnt at all helped (no luck for me with any herbal meds thou I've tried a heck of a lot). I got sick while studying to be a Naturopath myself, The first year of my illness with me getting sicker and sicker, was spent with me seeing naturopaths to no avail. Prescription meds have helped some of my symptoms (thank God for those) and also treating my MTHFR polymorphism and my insulin issues which GPs who specialise in this areas have done.


taniaaust

Sorry to hear you ran into a doctor of the same disdainful ilk as my former doc. Or, rather, a number of them. I'm particularly sorry to hear that naturopathy has not been any help either.
 
'Interesting', indeed! o_O

So if it had been heart disease...?

I did a quick search for how quickly various chronic illnesses kill, as I know that it can take well over a decade for many, and didn't find any clear statements on this in the time I had, but this Australian page gives useful stats.

Great article, by the way. I do hope that some doctors read these pages. The more they realise that we prefer honesty and humility to pomposity and 'reassurance' the better.


MeSci,

It would be great if doctors would read our reports of what we go through. I think many of them would find it quite eye-opening if they spent a little time.
 
As you know, Jody, I have been lucky enough to have 'normal' everyday health conditions which show up on tests, so I have faired far better than most people with chronic pain, fatigue & other miscellaneous debilitating symptoms.

But one thing that hasn't been resolved is my lack of deep restorative sleep (despite 8-9 'sleep' hours each night).

Unable to type or do much last week with my broken arm in plaster, I stayed off the computer 99% and you would not believe how well I slept for 3-4 nights. Even my high blood sugar with my recently diagnosed Diabetes II was almost normal (despite poor diet & little exercise over the winter months with flu & then an ongoing ankle prob).

In my particular case, lack of deep restful restorative sleep seems to coincide with high blood sugar.

I might suggest that EVERYONE with a sleep problem (who has cut out caffeine and any other stimulant) tries staying off the computer for one whole week (not even email or blogging) and seeing if the over-stimulated mind calms down.

Everyone is unique and responds to different treatments, but in my case, I still believe 'sleep' and 'stress' are my biggest problems. Diet (whatever works for you), exercise (slow walking in fresh, unpolluted air), keeping the body well-hydrated and getting enough deep sleep are paramount as starting blocks to resolving some chronic health issues. (notice I said 'some', not 'all').

People tell me they can't sleep, but when I see them on the internet spending lengthy hours researching, scrolling through lengthy articles and having lengthy conversations on forums, I can't quite believe they haven't tried staying off the computer (tv etc) - I mean literally, not turning the computer on at all.

I am also very lucky in having a supportive GP (who believes me and follows up every request or test I ask for, even though he, personally, can't offer much help).
Hello Victoria

I understand your confusion with regard to PWME and lengthly computer time. I have no real knowledge of your specific level of functioning but from my housebound and cognitively compromised position I might be able to help you with your confusion regarding lengthly computer use.
As I'm sure you know, most people want to be engaged with the world outside themselves.
There is a level of functioning among us where one is too mentally and physically sick to engage normally but not so sick that they can rest quietly for lengthly periods because their mind is wired up and wanting release. If you can't do more than be on the computer the alternative is to lay there doing nothing at all, which I have discovered is a lot harder than it sounds.
There is a problem with going too long but some of us have discovered that the alternative doesn't really bring relief either. I've tried. I don't sleep more or better, I find it more depressing because of the lack of distraction.
Hope that helps explain.
 
I agree Snowdrop, PR provides a necessary and positive distraction from the intensities of ME. I now have arranged a set up where I can lay in bed with laptop on my lap. I can close my eyes for awhile if I want to.

I don't feel so crazy alone in my illness, others here are going through the same thing. I miss work and all the day to day interactions with others. I did deteriorate when I first bought my laptop 18 months ago, the reading and using the keyboard inflamed my ME terribly. Fortunately I discovered D Ribose and that has helped eased some inflammation.

For me it's a toss up, computer or insanity. I choose computer. x Interestingly I have been sleeping better since having the computer, along with my melatonin tablet. I feel more positive in dealing with my ME symptoms and connected to the world from my bedroom.
 
When I was worse than I am now, but had emerged from the very worst stage and could again tolerate a computer - and [shiver :eek: ] forum interactions - I found them preferable/more tolerable than face-to-face conversations or even telephone calls: which I found to be very demanding and very draining.

I still think that personal interactions of that nature - quick-fire thinking etc. - are the most draining and demanding. Of course now it is all about balance - though I guess it always was really, but in different ways.

There does come a point - reached sooner for some than for others perhaps - where the stimulation (whatever the source and with varying (I think) predictability) becomes too much and if we persevere it can indeed result in less chance of a good sleep - or even a period of relaxation and some better chance of recharging.

We are all different but all rather sensitive to stimuli in whatever form from light to heat to mental input etc.

What a very strange but beautiful bunch we all are :)
 
My doctor was quite similar except that he did feel genuinely bad he could do squat to help me. He threw everything but the kitchen sink at me, and nothing..had every test done and somethings would be off or strange and he'd be scratching his head. His PAs were royal asses though..everytime my main doctor was busy and I had to see them, they would say '..Well you're probably just depressed, heres some anti depressants' or 'I can't find anything wrong with you' and stare at me like I was making it up! They did everything in their power to hurry me through the office and shove me the heck out. They figured if antibiotics didn't help, I was just a big fat liar.
It wasn't until we saw something on freaking Oprah that we thought '..hey..this might be what I have!' and presented it to the doctor..and he went 'Oh..You know that sounds about right'. I just thought..'WHY DIDN'T YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION BEFORE!?' and he sent me to get a tilt-table test and FINALLY had a 'good'(meaning I failed the hell out of that test) result that sealed the deal.
I dislike conventional medicine with all that's in me. I don't even take Ibuprofen for headaches. I take the three medications I /have/ to, and the rest are holistic. I take natural cures for colds and viruses, and I refuse to have another anti-biotic get anywhere near me. I will forever dislike Doctors with everything in me!
 
Being online gives me a way to regularly interact with people in a manner which I can handle. If I get too exhausted, I can simply say "bye!" and disappear for a while.

It also gives me a way to do something constructive. For a while I was a moderator here, which I stopped when my OI was too bad and unpredictable for me to continue. It felt very good to be doing something to help others, while others were also helping me.

When I got my OI treated, my ability to engage in intellectual pursuits increased dramatically. Instead of going back to moderating, I've spent my time reading reams of research, working on letters to be published in scientific journals regarding ME/CFS, writing articles for this forum, and designing a program to analyze 23andMe results to show rare genetic results or results regarding the functioning of specific genes.

I still have trouble with novels. I can manage them once in a while but am usually a bit wiped out afterwards. Same with most TV programs that aren't very simple or something I've seen before. On good days I can sit in the garden for 10-15 minutes and pull weeds or pick strawberries.

If I weren't online, what would I do all day? Lay there and try to sleep? Watch the birds? Think about all the things I can't do? The internet is what we do because we can't do the things we'd rather be doing. It might not be ideal, but it's the best alternative that many of us have available.
 
Being online gives me a way to regularly interact with people in a manner which I can handle. If I get too exhausted, I can simply say "bye!" and disappear for a while.

It also gives me a way to do something constructive. For a while I was a moderator here, which I stopped when my OI was too bad and unpredictable for me to continue. It felt very good to be doing something to help others, while others were also helping me.

When I got my OI treated, my ability to engage in intellectual pursuits increased dramatically. Instead of going back to moderating, I've spent my time reading reams of research, working on letters to be published in scientific journals regarding ME/CFS, writing articles for this forum, and designing a program to analyze 23andMe results to show rare genetic results or results regarding the functioning of specific genes.

I still have trouble with novels. I can manage them once in a while but am usually a bit wiped out afterwards. Same with most TV programs that aren't very simple or something I've seen before. On good days I can sit in the garden for 10-15 minutes and pull weeds or pick strawberries.

If I weren't online, what would I do all day? Lay there and try to sleep? Watch the birds? Think about all the things I can't do? The internet is what we do because we can't do the things we'd rather be doing. It might not be ideal, but it's the best alternative that many of us have available.

I so agree. I would be bored out of my mind if I couldn't use the computer. In any case, my business involves selling things online, I buy a lot of essentials online, and I moderate/co-moderate 3 forums as well as participating in others. I get lots of campaigning emails and forward them to relevant email groups.

I have a great thirst for knowledge, and learn a huge amount online - things that help me and others. If I want to identify an animal or plant, I look online, and sometimes post photos on ispot to check the identity for my nature diary.

I take photos and videos and edit them on my computer. I'm trying to develop a business making nature videos, and the internet has been vital for learning how to do things, getting video and audio software and using it.

I have copied all my favourite vinyl music onto the computer and created mp3s.

Computers are a huge part of many people's lives, and thank goodness for them!
 
I Googled why are doctors jerks and found some interesting
articles. One by a doctor caught my attention. He suggested
we thank our doctors for taking care of us. That really
opened my eyes as far as how I looked at the doctor
patient relationship. I had been looking at this completely
from a job angle, not human interaction. I thanked
my doctor yesterday. : )

fwiw, the more I learn about our bodies and
how different we are, I appreciate how complicated
working in health care must be.