Working to better understand 23andMe results

[Bluebell]

I've recently started on mild thyroid support with NDT.

What is NDT? Dessicated something? Is it over-the-counter? Does it seem to be helping? What were your initial thyroid problems?

 

[Valentijn]

So the +/- may not be as much of an issue? My very limited understanding of it is that it can result in issues with the sulphur pathway and excess sulfites/sulphur in the body? Is that right? When I started the methylation protocol I did a 3 week low thiols diet (really a drag) to see if I had any issues there. After adding some of the higher sulphur foods back in, I couldn't tell a difference - but have nonetheless still tried to limit my intake of them while I work on these other issues.

The CBS C699T shouldn't cause any sulfur problems at all. It's possible that the entire CBS gene can cause sulfur issues in Downs' Syndrome, where people have three copies of the chromosome, but I haven't seen any indication of 1) that CBS C699T is involved in that problem or 2) that harmful CBS upregulation can happen at all outside of Downs' Syndrome.

 

[Bluebell]

**While I think that people can have a good handle on biochemistry even if they don't have a professional degree in the health sciences, I'm not sure how easy it is for anyone to know quite what is going on in a particular person's body and how that would be affected by making changes (diet, supplements, daily behaviors, etc.) A lot of the advice given (even for a fee) is likely to be conjecture and repetition of received wisdom passed on by other people. This is where engaging a health professional who has extensive knowledge in the area, who has demonstrably been able to help prior clients with this, and who will monitor your progress and help you make adjustments would be good.

In the CBS thread you linked to above, I see that Dbkita said something similar -
"Having spent now 20+ years in bioinformatics and genomics, I can tell you in all honesty that when the actual functionality is determined by a concert of multiple genes working together in an integrated network of interactions of their expressed protein products, the system behavior is complicated. Often too complicated. So clinicians fall back on the crutch of one or two heterozygous mutations being the culprit. That is simply wrong ...
That being said a person may have reached a state due to metabolics, epigenetics, or many SNPs + exposures to metals, toxins, infections, etc. that their chemical reactions are not properly coupled anymore and they end up with too much say ammonia, etc. Then the important thing is how to treat this clinically. What is not necessarily useful is to see a heterozygous mutation in the CBS gene and then jump to the conclusion the person has a definite problem. Reverse it. What are their symptoms and work back, don't read the genome ticker tape and speculate forward.
....In the end it all depends on what works clinically."
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...versy-with-the-cbs-c699t-enzyme-defect.13957/

Later he said, "It is in fact extremely rare that one or two heterozygote mutations will ever lead to significant dysfunction. I would rather prioritize epigenetic or phenotypic factors due to say enviromental toxins, infections, severe stress, medication usage, etc."

THIS kind of idea is why I stopped putting a lot of time into my "advice chart" that I mentioned earlier, and decided to test out something simple like a facsimile of Rich's protocol and see how I felt with it.

 

[Bluebell]

The good news is, we aren't living in some kind of alternate space-time dimension where you and I are the only two earthlings (whereupon I might have needed to ditch the flower persona and become a future woman).

Note: I didn't mean that it sounded like a bad scenario.

 

[Valentijn]

Note: I didn't mean that it sounded like a bad scenario.

... Come on people, keep the flirting to the emo boards!

 

[Bluebell]

... Come on people, keep the flirting to the emo boards!

I am just friendly; you know that!

e.g.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-your-take-about-livewello.24523/#post-375126
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/interesting-ahcy-variations.24498/#post-375323

 

[Valentijn]

I am just friendly; you know that!

Ah yes ... "friendly"

 

[Bluebell]

there are one or two of moderators on the STTM Circadian Method/Adrenal email group who seem to know a lot about methylation and include it when helping others.

I had not heard of this method, so I just looked it up.

Do you think it would be applicable to my situation: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ul-for-some-guidance.23975/page-5#post-374676

I don't have low cortisol generally, apparently, but someone here said that my morning is a bit low, and my bedtime level is apparently too high according to the lab. My DHEA-S is really low.

And my reverse T3 is high.

I do not know what all this means and I have not been treated for hypothyroidism.

 

[Bluebell]

Ah yes ... "friendly"

You people from the coasts do not understand the open-heartedness of folks from The Heartland of America (tm).

 

[Critterina]

The CBS C699T shouldn't cause any sulfur problems at all. It's possible that the entire CBS gene can cause sulfur issues in Downs' Syndrome, where people have three copies of the chromosome, but I haven't seen any indication of 1) that CBS C699T is involved in that problem or 2) that harmful CBS upregulation can happen at all outside of Downs' Syndrome.

Valentijn,
I was suprised at your take that CBS C699T upregulation is not much of an issue. I'm am not ME/CFS, and not Down's. I am:
+/+ SHMT1 C1420T, MTRR A66G, VDR Bsm & Taq (or not Taq, I'm GG), BHMT-08 and
+/- CBS C699T & A360A, MTHFR A1298C, MTR A2756G, MTRR A664A, MAO A R297R

So, this is what happened: My methionine had tested below normal and my homocysteine was in the lowest 20% of the normal range (Tryptophan was also very low, but let's focus on sulfur.) We only had the MTHFR results. I was put on 1500 mg Methionine +1800 mg NAC + 200 mg ALA (plus MTHF, MB12 and other supplements) for the last 3 months and had increasing bloating, loss of appetite, weight gain, undigested food in stools, and sluggishness. I had to stop all amino acids before my last blood test; during this time these symptoms improved. After the test, I resumed my supplements except the three with sulfur, I did a low sulfur diet for 5 days, and I felt even better. I lost 7 lbs in 6 days as these symptoms resolved. My sulfite levels were low and my sulfate levels dropped from >1200 to 200-400.

To me it looked like my partial up-regulation of C699T causing problems, which the elimination of sulfur resolved. I imagined the supplemental MB12 letting my MTR run wild, using up all the MTHF I gave it, and having the homocysteine drawn down the CBS drain as fast as I could make it. I very much respect your opinion and insight. Help me see this another way.

 

[Valentijn]

To me it looked like my partial up-regulation of C699T causing problems, which the elimination of sulfur resolved. I imagined the supplemental MB12 letting my MTR run wild, using up all the MTHF I gave it, and having the homocysteine drawn down the CBS drain as fast as I could make it. I very much respect your opinion and insight. Help me see this another way.

The NAC was likely elevating your sulfur levels.

Other external factors also may have been elevating sulfur, or other genes. But there's no research indicating that CBS C699T is capable of such a feat, and quite a bit showing that the up-regulation is beneficial.

 

[Critterina]

The NAC was likely elevating your sulfur levels.

Other external factors also may have been elevating sulfur, or other genes. But there's no research indicating that CBS C699T is capable of such a feat, and quite a bit showing that the up-regulation is beneficial.

Thanks, Valenijn! I have been reading the stuff of C699T and how the conclusion that it sucked everything down the drain was based on an artificial, induced, drastic truncation of the gene, not the missense mutation in question. I have a lot to learn!