Stupid/Cranky and arbitrary doctors: rant warning!

[vamah]

I was in an Open University summer school.

I have to say though, that I really do not think that extraversion/introversion are reliable constructs.
Eysenck related extraversion to the level of arousal in the brain-stem, suggesting extraversion was related to low arousal, so that stimulation is required to arouse it...
(I think he was geting psychopathy mixed up with it)

But the theory was that extraverts are more interested in their surroundings than in themselves, while introverts were not interested in their surroundings but only in their own selves and thoughts.

Then there is the public percetion of it, which is that extraverts are generally, somebody big and bouncy and full of life, while introverts are quiet and shy.

I'm extravert because I'm timid and shy and want to entertain people, so that they will like me and not attack me.

I agree that a lot of people think "introverted" means "shy" which is not accurate. My understanding has always been that it means whether a person is energized or drained by interactions with other people. This idea that introverts are self-centered while extroverts are more aware of other people has always gotten me mad. When I was applying for jobs a few years back, I noticed that every job description specified an "outgoing" person. Can you imagine an office with nothing but extroverts? Nothing would ever get done because they would never stop talking.

 

[alex3619]

I have seen what excessive extroversion does in offices. They work so inefficiently I wonder why they don't go broke.

In my opinion introverts tend to make the best doctors too, but the extroverts are probably the most popular doctors to the general public.

 

[rosie26]

Bluebell
you probably should start a new thread with myers brigg list ?? If you do let us know here.

 

[Bluebell]

Bluebell
you probably should start a new thread with myers brigg list ?? If you do let us know here.

I previously wrote in response: "Is that what people here would like, or has the discussion kind of wrapped up on that topic? Let me know."

---
I've come back to edit this and say that I'm not sure I have the energy to start an open thread with such a huge and fascinating (to me!) subject matter on the main site right now.
That's because, if I am the one to bring up a topic, I try to acknowledge every person who contributes towards the discussion, to be inclusive and welcoming, plus enthusiastic about the subject, and I'm sort of focussed now on doing research about some worrying results I got on my recent blood tests, so I wouldn't want to feel that I was not devoting enough time to being "a good host", as it were, on a brand new thread that I had started.

---
If someone else wants to start a new thread on the MBTI, feel free to do so!

---
By the way, as I mentioned earlier here, a few weeks ago I wrote a post on PhoenixRising about research papers looking at genetics and personality types, an interesting area of study.

Here is that post, on the Community Lounge thread called "The Power of Introverts":
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-power-of-introverts.22511/page-8#post-366838

 

[rosie26]

Bluebell

I don't know, I just thought more people might keep adding theirs ?? Just a thought.

 

[Valentijn]

I thought "diploma? dipstick? diplopia?" I don't know what word you are being polite about, but I can see by the context that it's something that isn't good!

I think you're pretty close with "dipsticks". Just something a little ruder than "sticks" after the "dip"

 

[Moxie]

First, on topic, to Valentijn - I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. How are you feeling now? Has the spray at least helped the nasal inflammation at all? What's next for you? Human medicine drives absolutely nuts. Before my CFS dx, I dealt with the system extensively after a tbi (courtesy of a horse kick to the head exacerbated by a car accident 10 days later). I, unfortunately, was not capable of advocating for myself at that time. My (now ex-) husband was not knowledgeable or invested enough to advocate well, either, so I learned firsthand just how worthless physicians could truly be. You have my sympathy!! I do hope you find some answers.

Second, the tangent this thread has gone off on has been fascinating to read.
I am another INFJ. Before the accident, I was an INTJ. I'm a veterinarian, so it's been very necessary to learn more extroverted interaction skills to communicate well with owners, but I do find that I absolutely require alone time to recharge my batteries.

Oh, and my Chinese personality type is water and I'm a Leo. I'm definitely AOTP! (Love that!)

 

[Valentijn]

First, on topic, to Valentijn - I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. How are you feeling now? Has the spray at least helped the nasal inflammation at all? What's next for you?

Not bad. The spray might be helping a bit, but I still have yellow stuff coming out. Not the massive quantities I had earlier though.

For now I'm waiting on results from the snot culture, bartonella test, CRP, ESR, and iron from the GP. She might have results already, but I really don't feel like calling her. I'm a bit ticked off at the implications that I've been focusing too much on symptoms - seriously, should I have ignored coughing up little globs of blood, or turning blue when laying down? Maybe both?

I'll probably set up an appointment with Dr Meirleir next, since he's big on checking into the infectious aspects. It's only a couple hours' drive from where I am, so should be pretty cheap and easy.

 

[Moxie]

Not bad. The spray might be helping a bit, but I still have yellow stuff coming out. Not the massive quantities I had earlier though.

For now I'm waiting on results from the snot culture, bartonella test, CRP, ESR, and iron from the GP. She might have results already, but I really don't feel like calling her. I'm a bit ticked off at the implications that I've been focusing too much on symptoms - seriously, should I have ignored coughing up little globs of blood, or turning blue when laying down? Maybe both?

I'll probably set up an appointment with Dr Meirleir next, since he's big on checking into the infectious aspects. It's only a couple hours' drive from where I am, so should be pretty cheap and easy.

I think that's the part of your post that ticked me off the most on your behalf. It's asinine to suggest that you are responsible in any way for the manifestation of those symptoms. I'm glad they're at least being proactive with testing, and the culture is a good thing. Something that seems to rarely happen around here.

I'm glad the discharge is lessening, too.

 

[Bluebell]

I am another INFJ. Before the accident, I was an INTJ. I'm a veterinarian, so it's been very necessary to learn more extroverted interaction skills to communicate well with owners.

Hi Moxie, I'll add you to the big post that lists everyone's type which is above here in the thread (from two days ago).

In terms of your communicating with the animals, does your introversion come into play, help or hurt? Or is that type of communication via different channel altogether?
(I see in the media that it has something to do with 'whispering' )

Do you get the feeling that that some individual animals are introverted and some are extraverted, like people? Or would that be anthropomorphizing?

I don't know very much about animals as I'm allergic to quite a few kinds and tend to give them a wide berth, but I once housesat for a family where there was a shi-tzu (sp?) dog who wanted nothing to do with me, no petting, no playing, no companionship! He was the Greta Garbo of dogs - "I vant to be alone" ha.
Notice that I didn't say I dogsat, because the house needed me more than the dog did.

 

[Valentijn]

I think that's the part of your post that ticked me off the most on your behalf. It's asinine to suggest that you are responsible in any way for the manifestation of those symptoms.

Yeah, it does seem weird. The symptoms are being taken seriously (by my GP at least), but then it seems like I'm being blamed for having them when she talks about focusing on symptoms too much. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think part of the problem might be that GPs aren't equipped to handle chronic illness. It's either acute or it's not their problem. And when acute problems arise (possibly due to the lack of proper preventative/diagnostic specialist care) it's mixed in with chronic problems which they can't even begin to untangle.

So I think they end up in an impossible situation, which can provoke a wide variety of dysfunctional responses. I shouldn't complain though - at least my GP is willing to see me and test stuff

 

[Bluebell]

Hey BlueGirl,
You get lots of tests done by one pair of docs, and you have one really great doc halfway around the world, plus you are a few hours' drive from a bigshot! Even your snot is being cultured, sheesh.
Go eat your organic homegrown produce and cherish your stroopwafels and gouda and gorgeous butter and get a little 'motivation' why don't cha.

 

[Moxie]

Hi Moxie, I'll add you to the big post that lists everyone's type which is above here in the thread (from two days ago).

In terms of your communicating with the animals, does your introversion come into play, help or hurt? Or is that type of communication via different channel altogether?
(I see in the media that it has something to do with 'whispering' )

Do you get the feeling that that some individual animals are introverted and some are extraverted, like people? Or would that be anthropomorphizing?

I don't know very much about animals as I'm allergic to quite a few kinds and tend to give them a wide berth, but I once housesat for a family where there was a shi-tzu (sp?) dog who wanted nothing to do with me, no petting, no playing, no companionship! He was the Greta Garbo of dogs - "I vant to be alone" ha.
Notice that I didn't say I dogsat, because the house needed me more than the dog did.

I don't really fancy myself an "animal communicator." I'm definitely more analytical and clinical when it comes to diagnostics and a very thorough physical exam. I do watch closely for body language, behavior, and their physical responses to stimuli, but I don't pretend I can converse with them in the sense some claim.

So I don't know that introversion/extroversion necessarily comes into play there - I think it just comes down to good observation skills. In addition to obvious things, I honestly think many vets observe nuances that I'd be hard-pressed to define, but that we begin to pick up on a sub-conscious level after years of interactions. The same way people will bring in pets because "something isn't right," but when questioned the pet is still eating, playing, interacting, walking, running - something just isn't right. It might be a subtle shift in head carriage or almost imperceptible stiffness in their bodies when they walk or turn a certain way. And these owners are so often correct. Would an extrovert be less likely to pick up those cues because they're distracted by socializing? Is that what you mean? Or might an introvert miss things for other reasons? I don't honestly know.

Your question about intro/extro animals is a good one, and one I hadn't thought of in those exact terms before. Yes, there are huge differences in personality types among animals. Some dogs/cats/horses seek people out and love to be around them, some are more independent or prefer spending time with others of their own species. Some love people, but are really only bonded to one or two who they think of as members of their pack, and cann't really be bothered to interact with others. I think that's a very multi-factorial trait, though, and I could go on for a very long time about different breeds, nature vs. nurture, and animal behaviors.

 

[Moxie]

Yeah, it does seem weird. The symptoms are being taken seriously (by my GP at least), but then it seems like I'm being blamed for having them when she talks about focusing on symptoms too much. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think part of the problem might be that GPs aren't equipped to handle chronic illness. It's either acute or it's not their problem. And when acute problems arise (possibly due to the lack of proper preventative/diagnostic specialist care) it's mixed in with chronic problems which they can't even begin to untangle.

So I think they end up in an impossible situation, which can provoke a wide variety of dysfunctional responses. I shouldn't complain though - at least my GP is willing to see me and test stuff

I agree completely. I feel like one of the primary things GP's are trained to do is to choose the right specialist to which to turf us! ;P

I think I terrify my GP in some ways. She takes me seriously, but I can practically see the wheels turning as she wonders whether or not she should take me seriously! She's run out of specialists to try, and of course once a specialist says they can't help you, they don't offer further input or thoughts on who might be able to help. They just send you back to the GP. Once I ran out of medical specialists, I even complied and went to the CBT like a good girl, just to tick the boxes. So now she knows I'm not depressed or crazy.

It does sound as though you've got one who is about as good as they get. I like that you have KDM so close. Good for you! I hope he can help.

 

[Bluebell]

Moxie's post

That's fascinating! What a neat job you have.

 

[Moxie]

Thanks, Bluebell. I enjoy it. I wish I could practice full-time, but feel lucky - in the scheme of things - to be able to still practice even on a very limited basis and to have found an understanding clinic to employ me.

 

[SOC]

There are some linkages to some of these MBTI types to Asperger's:
for example, this guy says, for Asperger's, that "the most common type is INTJ followed by INTP and ISTJ" http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...rices/3385-asperger-s-syndrome-mbti-type.html

Uh.... that was an informal online poll. It's just as likely that the common factor among these people is their participation in online message boards, or the type of person that particular board appealed to, or....... Online, self-selected polls can be interesting, but are hardly definitive. The same is true of any poll of PR members -- any predominance in personality type is as likely to be due to our willingness to engage in a poll on an online message board as it is to due to our common illness.


Count me in with Valentijn and Roxie60 as an INTJ. No surprise to anyone who knows me.

 

[Bluebell]

Uh.... that was an informal online poll. It's just as likely that the common factor among these people is their participation in online message boards, or the type of person that particular board appealed to, or....... Online, self-selected polls can be interesting, but are hardly definitive.

I understand how to do proper research -- I was not saying that informal polling is definitive.

I was merely participating in a congenial conversation and raising a question that was interesting to me.

Asperger's has been discussed in terms of personality types beyond that one link I found (it was the first one that came up on Yahoo at that moment).

I do think there is a link between MTHFR and autism and Asperger's and personality types, but my N and P are happy to think that and go on their merry way without trying to find any studies or references tonight.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I am another INTJ.

 

[rosie26]

Would have been interesting to see everyones % s too.