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Glutamine possibly wreaking havoc and dealing with leaky gut

Misfit Toy

Senior Member
Messages
4,178
Location
USA
I had to stop the fentanyl patch last night as it was drugging me to no end. I took it off and last night the pain came back full force, but on top of that...my stomach went nuts. I woke up with diarheah (again spelling) and I realized....I can't take the aloe. I take it before bed and it messes up my GI tract, or maybe because the GI tract is so messed up, whatever I take I react to.

The GI tract is again going bonkers. The biggest thing I feel aside from sick everywhere, pain, etc is unstable. I feel like my mind is going nuts. I stopped all supplements, but my mind is still nuts. Major inflammation. I took Tagamet and my mind got worse.

I have such acid right now. A friend took me to a chiropractor today. She definitely feels the stomach is my main issue, even with my knee because I have so much inflammation throughout.

Thanks MeSci. I think about death and want it, but I am seriously hoping that this passes.
 

rosie26

Senior Member
Messages
2,446
Location
NZ
Hang in there Misfit Toy x . I had a lot of that feeling like I was going nuts in the mind. Major inflammation can release chemicals from my own non doctor experience and some tablets can cause that affect in the mind and throughout the body. Rest a lot. Hope others able to give you help to get through this.
Thinking of you. xxx
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
I have such acid right now. A friend took me to a chiropractor today. She definitely feels the stomach is my main issue, even with my knee because I have so much inflammation throughout.

Thanks MeSci. I think about death and want it, but I am seriously hoping that this passes.

I hesitate to suggest trying/adding another supplement, but although this doesn't seem to be included in most/any leaky gut protocols I have seen, I wonder whether sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) might help reduce your acidity. I have been taking it daily for over a year, and it seems to benefit me. I tried stopping it on one occasion this year when my gut worsened, but it got even worse, and improved again when I restarted. I ignore the advice below about consulting the doctor as my doctors are so clueless, but you may want to speak to yours. They may be better where you are than where I am!

I have not had any adverse effects.

Someone on one of the forums said that a way to tell whether sodium bicarbonate is suitable for you is whether you belch after taking it. I don't know whether it's correct, but I certainly belch!

Here's some info I saved when I was working out how much to take:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR601241/DSECTION=proper-use

Dosing

The dose of this medicine will be different for different patients. Follow your doctor's orders or the directions on the label. The following information includes only the average doses of this medicine. If your dose is different, do not change it unless your doctor tells you to do so.

The amount of medicine that you take depends on the strength of the medicine. Also, the number of doses you take each day, the time allowed between doses, and the length of time you take the medicine depend on the medical problem for which you are using the medicine.

For sodium bicarbonate powder:

To relieve heartburn or sour stomach:
Adults and teenagers—One-half teaspoonful in a glass of water every two hours. Your doctor may change the dose if needed.
Children—Dose must be determined by your doctor.
To make the urine more alkaline (less acidic):
Adults and teenagers—One teaspoonful in a glass of water every four hours. Your doctor may change the dose if needed. However, the dose is usually not more than 4 teaspoonfuls a day.

from http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682001.html

If you are using sodium bicarbonate as an antacid, it should be taken 1 to 2 hours after meals, with a full glass of water. If you are using sodium bicarbonate for another reason, it may be taken with or without food. Do not take sodium bicarbonate on an overly full stomach.

Do not use sodium bicarbonate for longer than 2 weeks unless your doctor tells you to.

tell your doctor and pharmacist what prescription and nonprescription medications you are taking, especially other antacids, aspirin or aspirin-like medicines, benzodiazepines, flecainide (Tambocor), iron, ketoconazole (Nizoral), lithium (Eskalith, Lithobid), methenamine (Hiprex, Urex), methotrexate, quinidine, sulfa-containing antibiotics, tetracycline (Sumycin), or vitamins. Take sodium bicarbonate at least 2 hours apart from other medicines.
tell your doctor if you have or have ever had high blood pressure, congestive heart failure, or kidney disease or if you have recently had bleeding in your stomach or intestine.

Sodium bicarbonate may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:

increased thirst
stomach cramps
gas

If you have any of the following symptoms, stop taking sodium bicarbonate and call your doctor immediately:

severe headache
nausea
vomit that resembles coffee grounds
loss of appetite
irritability
weakness
frequent urge to urinate
slow breathing
swelling of feet or lower legs
bloody, black, or tarry stools
blood in your urine
 

Misfit Toy

Senior Member
Messages
4,178
Location
USA
MeSci, thank you. I have wondered about taking it. Even with tagamet and prilosec yesterday, the burning was nuts. I wonder, do I have too much acid, or too little acid? At this point, I am not sure. I was so nauseauos last night that I wasn't sure if I would sleep. I took charcoal and bentonite clay and went to sleep.

So, at this point, I am so confused as to whether this acid is like I said, too much, or too little. I can take the baking soda in capsules. Whatever is going on is making me so tired. I guess so considering that I have not slept for nights, been in horrible pain and am now an anxious mess with my stomach going nuts. I barely ate yesterday.

Here's to another day. We shall see what happens next.

thanks, by the way.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
MeSci, thank you. I have wondered about taking it. Even with tagamet and prilosec yesterday, the burning was nuts. I wonder, do I have too much acid, or too little acid? At this point, I am not sure. I was so nauseauos last night that I wasn't sure if I would sleep. I took charcoal and bentonite clay and went to sleep.

So, at this point, I am so confused as to whether this acid is like I said, too much, or too little. I can take the baking soda in capsules. Whatever is going on is making me so tired. I guess so considering that I have not slept for nights, been in horrible pain and am now an anxious mess with my stomach going nuts. I barely ate yesterday.

Here's to another day. We shall see what happens next.

thanks, by the way.

You're welcome. I'm looking forward to hearing that you are feeling better! :)
 
Messages
21
Sorry for all you are going through. You might try replacing the glutamine with colostrum. Ever tried mastic gum for the stomach issues?
 
Messages
48
I think when it comes to gut healing, what you DON'T eat is as important as what you do eat. I follow the autoimmune paleo diet which means I don't eat grains, legumes, industrial oils, dairy, nuts, eggs, nightshades, or coffee. It sounds crazy overwhelming, and it can be at first. But my guts were a complete and total disaster before I started. I had to be very strict in the beginning but as I heal it gets more flexible. Most people add the foods back one at a time after about a month to see what they can keep in and what has to go.

Is it possible for you to go see someone about your depression and anxiety? I have had both and it is so hard to start something new and focus in on a plan when your brain on fire.
 

JPV

ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs
Messages
858
I can't really vouch for the validity of this information but it seems like something that might be pertinent to the current discussion...

L-Glutamine

Glutamine is needed to heal the intestines and it is important to the immune system. It is a good guess that anyone who has had yeast overgrowth will be low on glutamine. However, glutamine will increase the ammonia burden on the body. Not everyone will be able to tolerate it. Before you take glutamine, you should make sure your taurine levels are adequate, because the glutamine may lower taurine. Especially if you are mercury poisoned or if you have fibromyalgia, you should make sure your citrulline and arginine levels are adequate before trying glutamine.

Often, glutamine is prescribed to help repair your intestinal lining. Please be aware that it interacts with other amino acids. In fact, no amino acid acts completely by itself. In the case of glutamine, it can lower branch chain aminos, lower taurine and it might raise citrulline, arginine, and alanine aminos.

the intestines, the glutamine will convert into glutamate and release ammonia. The ammonia can interfere with many bodily processes including interference with alpha-ketoglutaric acid, which is needed for energy production. Long time exposure to excess ammonia can lead to permanent nerve damage.

Since many of us might be low on the amino acids used to remove ammonia, it might be a very good idea to bring up the level of these amino acids before starting glutamine. Alpha-ketoglutaric acid helps keep ammonia under control, and it is fairly likely that it is low. I also believe that low taurine levels should be corrected before starting the glutamine. I think that amino acid supplementation must be used in a particular treatment sequence for best results. The trick is to find out that sequence.
How To Remove Ammonia

If you have high ammonia levels, often alpha-ketoglutaric acid is depleted. Alphaketoglutaric acid helps remove ammonia. (The alpha-keto form of amino acids helps remove ammonia.) Also, this amino acid activates the citric acid cycle (Krebs) where energy is produced. Without sufficient alpha-ketoglutaric acid, you will be very tired. For the first couple of weeks, until your body gets used to this supplement, you might find it best to take this amino in the morning, otherwise it might interfere with your sleep. Later, you may find it is best to take it at night. You can also try citric acid to increase alpha-ketoglutaric acid levels, as suggested by Philpott. Or there is a supplement of OKG that contains alpha ketoglutaric acid and ornithine.

You need alpha ketoglutaric acid, B2 and magnesium to convert B6 into its active coenzyme form. The coenzyme form of B6 is needed for the enzymes that remove ammonia. Many of us with the yeast syndrome have a lack of coenzyme B6.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Too sleepy to take all of that in right now, but I recalled that research had found low ornithine in ME/CFS, so had a look in the ME Research UK database.

Here is the abstract of the paper I was thinking of, which also refers to glutamine.
 

Leopardtail

Senior Member
Messages
1,151
Location
England
Too sleepy to take all of that in right now, but I recalled that research had found low ornithine in ME/CFS, so had a look in the ME Research UK database.

Here is the abstract of the paper I was thinking of, which also refers to glutamine.
that is one very interesting paper, thanks....
the results are the polar opposite of mine (high ornithine & glutamine), but I also have high adrenaline & cortisol...
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
hi all. i just found this thread while searching for glutamine-related threads. my doc upped my glutamine supplement recently and put me on rifaxmin. i am a 100 worse CNS-inflammation wise. i have been assuming it is some kind of rifaximin "die-off" but now i wonder if it isnt the glutamine causing the issue?

i read some article saying glutamine can increase glutamate which we have too much of in the brain.....but i am too foggy to understand anything and the article looked kind of garbagy.

any thoughts?

thanks!
Daff
 

AndyPandy

Making the most of it
Messages
1,928
Location
Australia
@Daffodil I can't tolerate glutamine supplements. Made me feel terrible.

Is it worth dropping the dose back to what you were previously tolerating or dropping it altogether to see if it is the problem?

Best wishes Andy
 

AndyPandy

Making the most of it
Messages
1,928
Location
Australia
From memory it made me agitated, angry and aggressive. It was only a small dose but I am very sensitive to meds and supplements.

Think there is another thread on PR about reactions to glutamine. I remember contributing to it. A few people couldn't tolerate glutamine and had different reactions. Might be worth a search.

Best wishes Andy
 
Messages
22
I Have had the worst year. I am two hours away from home supposedly on vacation. I can't leave the house I'm so sick. I started taking glutamine the day before yesterday. My stomach is an absolute mess, I am also so anxious and I just feel so sick. I have leaky gut really bad, along with just being diagnosed a few days ago with celiac disease. I'm trying to heal the inflammation and the lining in my gut.

The glutamine seems to making it worse. Plus, I can't sleep, I'm anxious and I wake up in the middle of the night in a pool of soaking sweat. I have been trying Yasko's protocol, this is doing what she is worried about. Racey, heart flying, etc. My stomach is a mess! Worse on glutamine. Nausea and having to take Tagamet, which is doing nothing.


I am an Undermethylator and have Pyroluria. I've been healing well from it, but a couple of months ago I thought I'd try Glutamine to help heal my gut, not sure I really needed to, but suspected so. Up until a week or so ago, I had been feeling pretty darn good. Glutamine seemed to help my gut, seemed to help me feel some what calmer maybe, and at time sleep better but not sure about that. Now, I'm having more anxiousness, nervousness, feeling ill, cold, stomach issues, etc... I may have been low in Glutamine but wonder if I replenished and now I'm over doing it? I'm taking about 10g per day which some say isn't an issue and that you can take more and others might say it's too much. I'm going to discontinue glutamine for now and see how it goes.
 

MaximilianKohler

Senior Member
Messages
125
L-Glutamine also made things worse for me, but I can't handle anything that triggers bile (no protein/fat/amino acids).
 
Messages
3
MeSci, I came home due to being so sick. Just got in. I messed up my knee, so my whole left side of my leg, sciatica etc is acting up. I have to see an orthopedist. I can barely walk. My knee is wrapped up. This happened before leaving . Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. I got down there to 97 degree weather and I couldn't be in the house because the AC didn't kick in for 7 hours. Central air. I had to leave the house and walk around a grocery store. Then eat. Came back, it was still TOO hot. Then, the TV didn't work unless you got up and changed the channels manually. It was a 2 hour drive. WE are in a major heat wave and that's when my vacation was booked for. No one is really leaving their house. Again, I feel cursed by this. Also, in the middle of the night last night....something in the house is beeping and it's a fire thing on the ceiling that I can't reach because there are cathedral ceilings. I was alone, by myself. Am I crazy? I feel like I am crazy and maybe I am just making a mountain out of a molehill. I was so stressed. I need something to go right. Nothing is going right at all. I feel like I just need to stay in and never go out, drive, or whatever for fear that something will go awry. When I think of a vacation, I think of things going right.....not wrong. Like having Central air that's on when you get there, having a TV that works without having to get up and not having a fire thing beeping like no tomorrow at 4 am until today when I left.

I never have good news anymore. When people call, I have nothing good to say.

Aside from the glutamine, the Sam-e that I started taking and then stopped; Another thing, my friend was supposed to go down with me, broke her foot and had a concussion and couldn't go. I get down there, the AC is broken. Then, the TV is messed up. I became so stressed and sick. Plus, carrying everything from my car into the house.

I was taking diflucan, Sam-e and the glutamine all at once. Then aloe because I am so backed up.

Plum, I made soup and bought the books for GAPS, but I can't do it. It's too much work, I am too sick and I can't ferment things. I have no space. I live in a tiny apartment. I also get sick of bone broth constantly. It's like eating the same thing over and over again makes me want to vomit. Also, Plum, aloe vera juice causes me to have horrible gas. Like, don't come around me gas. ITs awful.

I can tell you this, I didn't take anything today and even though I am wickedly depressed, I am not feeling like yesterday or the day before. I felt NUTS yesterday and like I was so weak and revved up all at once. I couldn't breath right. My mind wouldn't shut up. That was after 2 days of glutamine. Plus, I kept having diarreah. Or however you spell that awful word.

I am a mess. I am SO EAGER to heal my gut that I feel like it has become an obsession and like I am paranoid. I feel without the glutamine, it's hopeless on healing the gut. I have not been successful at it thus far. Not with the rotation diet, not with elimination or probiotics or kefir. I can basically have water. That doesn't hurt me.

You mention that you were taking Diflucan while taking the glutamine and some other stuff. It was probably the Diflucan that was making you feel so crazy and overwhelmed! The die-off affect I get from taking even the smallest amount of a Diflucan pill, causes insane anxiety for me. Maybe it was doing it for you., I think I read it is from the acetaldehyde build up in the brain from the yeast dying. It is so bad for me, that now I can not take even a fraction of a small pill. I read that taking vitamin b-5, pantethine, can help with this problem. I’m so sorry that you had all that crazy anxiety. I’ve been through it and unless you have experienced it, no one really knows just how dibilitating and mentally painful it is. I hope that by now you are better and have figured out some new things to get you well.
 

Misfit Toy

Senior Member
Messages
4,178
Location
USA
@Sugarboo -I am fine on diflucan. It was the glutamine.

I hope that by now you are better and have figured out some new things to get you well.

That was 5 years ago. I am much worse now. I have other diagnoses than CFS. In fact, CFS....what is it?

I have sjogrens, cvid and hyper mobility spectrum disorder.
 
Messages
56
The symptoms correspond roughly to what you would see with excessively high glutamate levels. I also did poorly on glutamine by the way.

If something doesn't work for you, don't take it.

You could try high dose vitamin A (not precursors) instead. It helps regulating the mucosal immune function, decreasing inflammation by increasing immunocompetency. http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/vitamin-a-the-key-to-a-tolerant-immune-system/
It’s NOT a good idea to megadose Vitamin A. It’s a fat soluble vitamin and is dangerous to get too much of from supplements or animal sources.