CFS Triggered by almost all foods / liquids

[Eric2032]

So about a year ago i got extremely sick. Doctors said it was some manner of viral / bacterial infection, they werent sure and i gaurantee you they just winged the prescription recommendations looking back. They had me on an anti biotic for awhile, and put me on prednisone for about a month. As time progressed after that i found myself getting sick, flu like symptoms with swollen glands / tonsils almost on a weekly basis. Things were BAD. I had no idea what was happening to me and neither did my doctors, but then i started making the connection with feeling bad only after eating. Long story short, i eventually adopted a paleo diet and magically stopped getting sick after only a few weeks. Tonsils stopped getting infected, glands stopped swelling, everything was awesome.

Things were great for a few months, i was back in the gym hitting the weights hard, and i started to enjoy my life again. That was until i started reacting to foods, but it was different this time around. Instead of flu symptoms, which generally didnt manifest for a few days, definitely what you would call "Delayed symptoms" my reactions were immediate. I get intense pressure in the salivary glands behind my jaw, making my ears feel like they need to pop. Worst of all is the MIND WRECKING Brain fog that comes with it. I mean i go zero to stupid in SECONDS of ingesting ANYTHING offending at this point. I mean ANYTHING, but i mostly notice that its related to carbs. I cant tolerate any fruits, and the faster they absorb the worse the symptoms are, like grapefruit. The symptoms pass somewhere around an hours time, but once the swelling in my brain goes down im left with this fatigue and malaise like ive never felt in my life. Its like being sick only you have zero visible signs of it, and it lasts for days.

So far, i am only able to eat Beef and chicken, but entirely plan and cooked well. And the veggies i CAN eat need to be steamed for a ridiculously long amount of time.

The problem is, as i am now, i react even to things i shouldnt, such as bottled water. So im constantly in some state of inflammation / brain fog / fatigue. These arent standard allergy symptoms, no hives, no throat closings or random swelling. This is an INSTANT reaction to basically everything, that happens the second i swallow food. My body has developed almost a hyper immunity to food.

Ive had some testing done, blood work is all normal however a dietary stool analysis showed that my digestion is absolute garbage, and that im missing basically entire strains of beneficial bacteria. No candida listed. The test also did not cover parasites of any kind. So im seeing a GI doctor next week to investigate the results, but im not holding my breath.

Is this Leaky gut? A bacterial overgrowth? something like SIBO? i have no issues with constipation, or bleeding / diarrhea. I am 25 years old, and prior to this nightmare i was an amateur bodybuilder and was able to eat anything i wanted. Please help


EDIT: This thread found here http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bacterial-overgrowth-in-stomach.11357/ seems to have the closest to the symptoms i experience.

 

[Dufresne]

Hi Eric,

I can relate to what you write about. In fact this observation of getting worse very shortly after eating is not all that uncommon. From what I can see it appears to affect many of us among the 'wired but tired' subset. I've communicated with Troy (Hixxy) who's situation resembles your own somewhat. Interestingly Troy experienced a complete remission from symptoms some time ago following the triple cocktail therapy for blastocystis which he'd tested positive for. Unfortunately he relapsed about a month later, even though the blasto was gone. However I think this strongly suggests his problem includes a bacterial/parasitic component that's especially hard to eradicate.

I too have noticed this triggering of symptoms almost immediately after eating. I posted about it some time ago and you can find a link to that further down on Troy's thread.

I too was an amateur bodybuilder before becoming disabled. I've often wondered if the very high protein intake involved in this hobby doesn't help push us over the edge. As the 'wired but tired' subtype probably involves a certain amount of glutamate/NMDA excitotoxicity, and a high protein diet will produce loads of glutamate and ammonia, it would seem this could predispose to glutamate kindling through hyper-stimulation of NMDA receptors. Out of curiosity, would you consider yourself as 'wired but tired'? Have you ever noticed any benefit from taking GABA agonists or NMDA antagonists?

Here's a link to an interesting theory about glutamate toxicity in ME/CFS
http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...fs-puzzle-the-neuroinflammatory-series-pt-ii/

 

[*GG*]

Not sure where you are,, but perhaps this listing can help you find a good dr?:

http://www.co-cure.org/good-doc.htm

It's somewhat outdated.

GG

 

[Eric2032]

Hi Eric,

I can relate to what you write about. In fact this observation of getting worse very shortly after eating is not all that uncommon. From what I can see it appears to affect many of us among the 'wired but tired' subset. I've communicated with Troy (Hixxy) who's situation resembles your own somewhat. Interestingly Troy experienced a complete remission from symptoms some time ago following the triple cocktail therapy for blastocystis which he'd tested positive for. Unfortunately he relapsed about a month later, even though the blasto was gone. However I think this strongly suggests his problem includes a bacterial/parasitic component that's especially hard to eradicate.

I too have noticed this triggering of symptoms almost immediately after eating. I posted about it some time ago and you can find a link to that further down on Troy's thread.

I too was an amateur bodybuilder before becoming disabled. I've often wondered if the very high protein intake involved in this hobby doesn't help push us over the edge. As the 'wired but tired' subtype probably involves a certain amount of glutamate/NMDA excitotoxicity, and a high protein diet will produce loads of glutamate and ammonia, it would seem this could predispose to glutamate kindling through hyper-stimulation of NMDA receptors. Out of curiosity, would you consider yourself as 'wired but tired'? Have you ever noticed any benefit from taking GABA agonists or NMDA antagonists?

Here's a link to an interesting theory about glutamate toxicity in ME/CFS
http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...fs-puzzle-the-neuroinflammatory-series-pt-ii/

For me its like im in a haze, my body has energy but my brain is totally useless for anything but maybe one task at a time. This is only set off by consumption of something that my body deems bad. But at the point im at now, im eating only chicken / beef and a select amount of vegetables. All cooked by me, all without seasonings or flavor, and all organic because normal meat bothers me for some reason..

I almost feel like its intestinal parasites, or an overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria. From what ive read, both positive and negative bacteria influence your immune system, its how it kind of remains autonomous. Since my CDSA Confirmed that my gut situation is bad, missing beneficial bacteria and what not, i would think that maybe thats why?

Whats strange is that although i stopped getting sick, i became hyper immune AFTER i removed the bad stuff wrecking me daily. That part makes no sense to me.

 

[xchocoholic]

Sounds like you may be experiencing post exertional malaise (pem). I was dx with cfs back in 1992 but responded
to changing my diet. Most of my problems appear to have been related to gluten but I have other
the other common food intolerances (gluten, corn, soy and dairy) and chemicals too. It took me about 2 years to stabilize. I'm a celiac so healing my leaky gut is impossible due to all the gluten everywhere.

I've had cdsas and been treated for leaky gut via paleo diet
probiotics etc but I still get pem. My pem consists of the symptoms you describe which I attrbute to my disabling orthostatic
intolerance. Meaning I feel the lack of circulation everytime I'm upright. Dr peckerman wrote about
Oi causing pem due to hypoperfusion. Googling peckerman cfs will retreive his article.

My recent cdsa still shows low good bacteria but nothing bad other than a parasite of unknown origin. I
keep meaning to treat for that but something has gotten in the way. Still most of my symptoms
are from food or chemical intolerances.

Taking mast cell meds Wal-zyr (Walgreens brand zyrtec) and children's dye free bnadryl are helping me
with these symptoms. We have a section on mast cells here because of the known correlation in cfs.

Hth ... X

 

[Thinktank]

I can relate to your symptoms. I too get extremely brain fogged after eating and it doesn't matter what kind of food it is.
Brain fog / drowsiness usually starts within 15 minutes after a meal and sometimes even during the meal!
I've been thinking about postpranial hypotention, maybe the blood flow to the brain gets impaired because much of it gets routed to the gut during / after a meal.

One thing that helped me for a while was intermittent fasting, as explained on leangains.com. It helped me to do some work, at least in the morning. After the first meal the brain fog came back.

 

[Junto]

Firstly, I think Paleo is a great place to start in changing one's lifestyle to promote healing. However, your may need to adopt a therapeudic form of paleo in your case. You likely have dysbiosis or SIBO after taking the antibiotics, this is not uncommon. It sounds like a GAPs protocol would be best for you since you have so much trouble digesting even the most benign toxin-free foods like meat and steemed veggies. Good luck to you.

 

[Junto]

Just curious Eric, do you have any sinus/nasal symptoms after eating in addition to the other symptoms you have described?

 

[tyson oberle]

Just curious Eric, do you have any sinus/nasal symptoms after eating in addition to the other symptoms you have described?

Junto,
I have adapted a paleo diet, but I don't think it is for me because I am now much more constipated than before and I also get nasal inflammation/congestion after eating meat with fat . I have noticed that COOKED grass fed beef, pork, buffalo, or lamb cause more nasal inflammation/congestion than RAW grass fed lamb with RAW fat or RAW grass fed beef with RAW fat . Sometimes I don't notice any nasal inflammation with RAW grass fed beef with RAW fat or grass fed RAW lamb with RAW fat or COOKED chicken. Just about any protein, especially eggs (raw or cooked) causes nasal inflammation/congestion for me. Even chicken broth or meat broth causes nasal inflammation/congestion for me. What does that mean exactly? I am going to experiment with a more vegetarian diet, but nuts and seeds whether raw, dry roasted or sprouted also cause nasal inflammation/congestion for me. It seems that only flax seeds don't cause any nasal inflammation/congestion for me.

 

[Junto]

Junto,
I have adapted a paleo diet, but I don't think it is for me because I am now much more constipated than before and I also get nasal inflammation/congestion after eating meat with fat . I have noticed that COOKED grass fed beef, pork, buffalo, or lamb cause more nasal inflammation/congestion than RAW grass fed lamb with RAW fat or RAW grass fed beef with RAW fat . Sometimes I don't notice any nasal inflammation with RAW grass fed beef with RAW fat or grass fed RAW lamb with RAW fat or COOKED chicken. Just about any protein, especially eggs (raw or cooked) causes nasal inflammation/congestion for me. Even chicken broth or meat broth causes nasal inflammation/congestion for me. What does that mean exactly? I am going to experiment with a more vegetarian diet, but nuts and seeds whether raw, dry roasted or sprouted also cause nasal inflammation/congestion for me. It seems that only flax seeds don't cause any nasal inflammation/congestion for me.

Tyson, I'm not sure the type of paleo diet your following, there are many versions. Eating fermentable fibers such as sweet potato and white potato along with a lot of veggies and copious amounts of healthy fats will keep your digestive system humming along. Personally, I subscribe to Paul Jaminets version of paleo(www.perfecthealthdiet.com). I consider myself 80% recovered from Fibromyalgia and I attribute the majority of my improvement to the "diet". What I believed was most beneficial was adding specific foods and supplements to ensure all of my vitamin and minerals needs were met(but not exceeded) and the addition of fermented vegetables and bone broth(heals the gut). Circadian rhythm enhancement was also beneficial(there is a lot of science behind this recentally).

Regarding your reactions, I wouldn't put too much stock in which foods you react to and which ones you don't. If your gut is leaky you'll be producing antibodies to just about everything you eat. Again, I would suggest taking care of the root cause of your digestive problems which is likely dysbiosis/sibo. You can request a test for sibo(hydrogen breath test) from your doctor. If the test is negative, I'd ask for a stool analysis to check for other bugs. Again, I think GAPS is a good broad-range protocol. You seem very reactive, you may be on the first stage for a few days but I think you'll see improvement.

 

[tyson oberle]

Tyson, I'm not sure the type of paleo diet your following, there are many versions. Eating fermentable fibers such as sweet potato and white potato along with a lot of veggies and copious amounts of healthy fats will keep your digestive system humming along. Personally, I subscribe to Paul Jaminets version of paleo(www.perfecthealthdiet.com). I consider myself 80% recovered from Fibromyalgia and I attribute the majority of my improvement to the "diet". What I believed was most beneficial was adding specific foods and supplements to ensure all of my vitamin and minerals needs were met(but not exceeded) and the addition of fermented vegetables and bone broth(heals the gut). Circadian rhythm enhancement was also beneficial(there is a lot of science behind this recentally).

Regarding your reactions, I wouldn't put too much stock in which foods you react to and which ones you don't. If your gut is leaky you'll be producing antibodies to just about everything you eat. Again, I would suggest taking care of the root cause of your digestive problems which is likely dysbiosis/sibo. You can request a test for sibo(hydrogen breath test) from your doctor. If the test is negative, I'd ask for a stool analysis to check for other bugs. Again, I think GAPS is a good broad-range protocol. You seem very reactive, you may be on the first stage for a few days but I think you'll see improvement.

Thanks Junto for you reply
I already did the sibo test and it showed no bacterial overgrowth. I also did a leaky gut test that showed that I do have a little bit of a leaky gut. I will look into the Paul Jaminets version of the paleo diet.

 

[Sherlock]

i was back in the gym hitting the weights hard

Is this Leaky gut? A bacterial overgrowth? something like SIBO? i have no issues with constipation, or bleeding / diarrhea. I am 25 years old, and prior to this nightmare i was an amateur bodybuilder and was able to eat anything i wanted. Please help

Hi, it's a known phenomenon that hard exercise degrades the 'tight junction' proteins in the gut and so you get increased permeability PWO. On top of that, you might have toxins from flora getting through the leaky gut, besides the normally harmless food molecules that wouldn't have gotten through the gut barrier before.

I'd check out any BB forum for info on using glutamine - it's a little tricky taking it, and I haven't read on that lately so there might be something new over and above the standard advice of 'take a little or take a very lot'.