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Determining Mercury Sensitivity

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
MELISA (Memory Lymphocyte Immunostimulation Assay)

This blood test was developed by Czech Scientists in Sweden.

It detects white blood cells that have already reacted to toxic metals.


Stejskal's pioneering work on CFS shows consistent evidence of Metal Sensitivity in vast majority...

Fatigue - regardless of the underlying disease is largely hypersensitivity to inorganic mercury and nickel (Neuro Endocrinol Lett 1999: 20: 221.8)


My Asyra test pointed to high levels of Nickel in my system.

The contact for the UK though doesnt seem to exist anymore :(

It was Dr Ian Hyams ...

In the USA its Douglas MacTaggart

Does anyone know about this test?
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
I think I have found what I was looking for...

Melisa is the Lab..

http://www.melisatest.com/

Hi Golden,

I had the MELISA test done by Vera Stejskal, the researcher, many years ago as I got to know her. It was one year after that my last amalgam filling was removed. The test didn´t show any reaction to mercury though I had been very sick after every removal - and still was. Vera Stejskal said that often there is no reaction in the MELISA test one year after the last filling has been removed.

But still there probably is a toxic load and due to that negative biochemical reactions that might be quite severe. I have seen several gene tests from people with mercury problems, and both genes in the methylation cycle AND GST-genes in the Phase 2 liver detoxification system have been defect. A low level of reduced glutathione and decreased binding/conjugating capacity makes detox difficult and people have been diagnosed with ME/CFS.

Helen
 

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
Hi Golden,

I had the MELISA test done by Vera Stejskal, the researcher, many years ago as I got to know her. It was one year after that my last amalgam filling was removed. The test didn´t show any reaction to mercury though I had been very sick after every removal - and still was. Vera Stejskal said that often there is no reaction in the MELISA test one year after the last filling has been removed.

But still there probably is a toxic load and due to that negative biochemical reactions that might be quite severe. I have seen several gene tests from people with mercury problems, and both genes in the methylation cycle AND GST-genes in the Phase 2 liver detoxification system have been defect. A low level of reduced glutathione and decreased binding/conjugating capacity makes detox difficult and people have been diagnosed with ME/CFS.

Helen

Hi Helen,

Thanks :)

Can I just clarify.

You took the test and it showed negative.

A year later you had your last mercury filling out.

So basically, the test did not work?

Your experience of being very ill after amalgam removal is what i have been researching for my own filling.
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Hi Golden,

I took the test and it showed negative, and that was one year after I had my last mercury filling out. So the test did work,
but as the researcher said, this was a rather common result one year after all had been removed. I hope this was more
clear :). I was ill before the amalgam removal, and got worse during the removal as the dentist didn´t know how to make this as safe as possible. I was exposed to mercury vapor (?) that is very toxic.

If I get you right you have at least one amalgam filling left? Then I wouldn´t spend money on a MELISA test, only get
it/them removed by a dentist who knows that you can get sick from them. If he/she doesn´t know, the removal will
probably not be made safe and to 100%, which is important. www.iaomt.org has some good information if you didn´t know already. After the last filling has been removed; most people start getting much better, but go safe and slowly as recommended.

If you haven´t had a 23andme test I think this would be of more value for you than the MELISA test. Then you could get to know your genes in the methylation cycle, and your DetoxiGenomics: most important the GST-genes.
 

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
Oh I see. Thank you :)

Wouldnt it be a good thing to have verified on your medical records - metal toxicity?

I only have one filling. However problems occurred from several things around this time including a vaccination and a virus. So Before I 'risk' removing it , I want to know if it is actually a problem for me....if its not I would prefer to just leave it there...

I just havent got to grips with the 23me test yet nor the methylation... so I am bypassing it ha ha and trying

a hap hazard spontaneous protocol :)

Good to hear from you direct over this issue....

Would you say removing the fillings made you better now?
 

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
p.s. I am awaiting an email response from melisa as to the cost!!

Its a bit disconcerting that the prices arent on the website! (not that i can find anyway)

hope its affordable :)
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Hi Golden,

I had the MELISA test done by Vera Stejskal, the researcher, many years ago as I got to know her. It was one year after that my last amalgam filling was removed. The test didn´t show any reaction to mercury though I had been very sick after every removal - and still was. Vera Stejskal said that often there is no reaction in the MELISA test one year after the last filling has been removed.

But still there probably is a toxic load and due to that negative biochemical reactions that might be quite severe. I have seen several gene tests from people with mercury problems, and both genes in the methylation cycle AND GST-genes in the Phase 2 liver detoxification system have been defect. A low level of reduced glutathione and decreased binding/conjugating capacity makes detox difficult and people have been diagnosed with ME/CFS.

Helen
If you got very sick after each removal are you still glad you got your amalgams removed? I can't afford to get mine removed, but I'm not sure I want to even if I could afford it because it seems risky.
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Oh I see. Thank you :)

Wouldnt it be a good thing to have verified on your medical records - metal toxicity?

I only have one filling. However problems occurred from several things around this time including a vaccination and a virus. So Before I 'risk' removing it , I want to know if it is actually a problem for me....if its not I would prefer to just leave it there...

I just havent got to grips with the 23me test yet nor the methylation... so I am bypassing it ha ha and trying

a hap hazard spontaneous protocol :)

Good to hear from you direct over this issue....

Would you say removing the fillings made you better now?

Yes, of course it could be a good thing to have a MELISA test. But it doesn´t show toxicity if positive. It shows allergy to different metals -or not. When I took the test it was a panel of many metals, not only mercury. I have studied mercury-related health problems for 20 years and followed many, many sufferers and their signs and symptoms and nickel allergy has been very common among people with mercury problems.

I would never leave just one filling as every time you chew with it, get hot food or drinks on it or eat sour things this will emit mercury. A study, unpublished of political reasons, showed that mercury also emits from amalgam fillings in front of some PC´s (computers ?). I worked with one of the worst PC´s when I got sick at the department where this research was made.

Yes, the removing of my fillings made me very much better. I was almost bedridden when I decided to have them removed. I have met many people who, after their last removal of amalgam got their health back. They probably have better genes for detox then we have that end up with ME/CFS.

Today I am convinced that the genetics that is involved in detoxification, and of course the exposure, "decides" how sick you are. If you have the real bad genes you are prone to get sick even from removal, if not carefully made. And it is also important to support the body with the right vitamins, minerals and other substances.

Difficult topic for me to discuss in English, but I hope it is possible to understand. If not, just ask!
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
If you got very sick after each removal are you still glad you got your amalgams removed? I can't afford to get mine removed, but I'm not sure I want to even if I could afford it because it seems risky.

Yes, the removal saved my life I am sure, and if it had been made properly I had surely felt even better today. I am really sorry that you can´t afford a removal. I know that you, like me, appreciates Rich´s work, and if you listen to his seminar in Sweden he talks about mercury and methylation. Mercury is supposed to be the strongest stressor to methylation. It disturbes the metabolism of B12 among many other processes. People that have been taking B12 during the time for removal seem to get much better than others.


Helen
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
I too got much worse after amalgam filling removal - and that was with a specialist dentist!!
Took me 6months to get back on my feet, and never really returned to pervious levels - I have another 3 fillings to go - I'm having them removed in the next few months - hopefully with some specialist support with chelation and by a different dentist... Cheyney recommends removal of one a year , but I'm running out of time.
 

ukxmrv

Senior Member
Messages
4,413
Location
London
Dr Hyams was my doctor in London for a while. I had a lot of tests through him but can't remember if we did this one. The Mercury tests that we did do were negative for me.

Dr Hyams was brought before the GMC and then left the UK for Canada.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Yes, the removal saved my life I am sure, and if it had been made properly I had surely felt even better today. I am really sorry that you can´t afford a removal. I know that you, like me, appreciates Rich´s work, and if you listen to his seminar in Sweden he talks about mercury and methylation. Mercury is supposed to be the strongest stressor to methylation. It disturbes the metabolism of B12 among many other processes. People that have been taking B12 during the time for removal seem to get much better than others.


Helen
I'm glad to hear that getting them removed helped you. I'm not sure if amalgams made my health worse or not because I had Lyme for a long time before I got them. It's true there were periods after getting my amalgams where my health did get worse, but it happened at least 6-12 months and afterwards both times occurred after periods of oxidative stress. I also think my Lyme got reactivated because my rash appeared before each time my health got worse. I don't want to rule out mercury as a contributing factor though. Would getting tested for mercury give me an indication of whether or not I need to get my amalgams removed? If so, which test would be the best (and cheapest)?
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
I have read what Rich has said about mercury and methylation, but there doesn't seem to be a one-size-fits-all approach in regards to methylation, chelation, and amalgam removal based on his posts in the past year or two:
I expect that you would get different advice from Andy, but for what it's worth, I would suggest doing the methylation protocol first. If it works, it will bring up the sulfur metabolism, which the body's detox system depends on to a large extent, and which is dysfunctional in ME/CFS. That will activate the body's normal ways of detoxing heavy metals and other toxins. Then, if it turns out to be necessary to do the chelation treatment, the body's detox system will be better able to help.

If the body burdens of toxic metals, such as mercury, are too high, so that these toxins block enzymes in the methylation cycle or related pathways, then it will be necessary to do the chelation treatment first.
Yes, high heavy metals body burdens can interfere with rebooting the methylation cycle, the reason being that several of the heavy metals bind to sulfur atoms, and the methylation cycle is at the beginning of the sulfur metabolism. So if heavy metals are high, they can block several of the enzymes in this part of the metabolism. In our clinical study, we had an 84-year-old lady who didn't respond to several months of methylation treatment, but then, when Dr. Nathan added chelation with DMPS and DMSA, she bounced right up, and was able to go on a trip to Paris with her friends. So, yes, heavy metals can be a big blocker of this type of treatment.
Thanks for the info Rich. I have two amalgam fillings. One I had in April 2010 and the other I had just a couple of months ago. I am fond of tuna and eat quite a lot of it because it is 'healthy' (apart from the mercury), so I fill definitely take some extra selenium.

For a couple of months before I had my first filling my CFS symptoms improved a lot. I had been following Dr Myhill's protocol for three months and had been strict about taking preemptive rest. Then in the April my toothache flared up and I had my first filling and I haven't been able to return to that level of improvement since.

I have no idea if the filling has anything to do with this, or if it is just a coincidence. I am considering having my fillings changed for the plastic ones, but my doctor doesn't think mercury in fillings is a problem (he says I probably get more mercury from tuna). Also, I have read that some of the plastic fillings can mess with your endocrine system, something to do with bisphenol A.

On a side issue, it really bothers me that I have fillings at all. I used to be so proud that I had looked after my teeth and had no fillings. And now I am annoyed / irritated with myself for not taking better care. I tell other people about this and they just laugh and say they have a mouth full of amalgam and they are fine and that I shouldn't worry about two little fillings and that I am being paranoid.

I used to be so fit and healthy and active but now I am a wreck
--------------------------------
Hi, zenzero.

In my opinion, it's best to get the detox system working more normally by lifting the partial methylation cycle block before considering whether to remove amalgams. The process of removing them, even when done by a savvy dentist, can expose the person to enough mercury vapor that it can make them ill for quite a while. I've read numerous accounts from people who did that. Two isn't very many, as others have said, though people differ a lot in their ability to detox mercury, for genomic reasons. You could indeed have a significant body burden of methylmercury, given that you have consumed a lot of tuna.

I would suggest trying the methylation protocol with extra selenium, to see how it goes. If glutathione will not come up, you may have to consider direct treatment to take out mercury. If glutathione will come up, your mitochondrial function should improve.

Best regards,

Rich
What are some possible reasons why a PWME would experience no response from the methylation treatment? One obvious possibility might be that the person does not have the vicious circle mechanism described above. Though this mechanism appears to be fundamental to the pathophysiology of ME/CFS, there may be some people who have similar symptoms but do not have this vicious circle. This is one of the main reasons it is helpful to run the methylation pathways panel (I refer here to the biochemical panel, not the genomic panel with a similar name.)

I suspect that another possibility is deficiency in one or more of the essential nutrients for the methylation cycle and related pathways. There are several vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids needed to support this part of the metabolism, and many PWMEs have been found to be deficient in some of them. Those who have hemopyrrollactamuria (HPU) are a subset of this group. Again, testing is available to determine whether there are deficiencies. This includes direct determination of the levels of the nutrients in the blood, measurements of certain enzyme activities that are specific to particular nutrients, and inferring deficiencies from metabolic tests (such as urine organic acids and amino acids in the urine), hair mineral tests, and essential element tests in the urine. The interpretation of hair testing is not simple or straightforward and requires considerable understanding and experience. Testing for HPU is also available.

Another possibility is high body burdens of one or more toxic metals, such as mercury, that are capable of blocking enzymes in this part of the metabolism. Testing is available to look for these in urine, blood, feces and hair, and chelation may be needed if the levels of the toxic metals are high.

If there are problems with the digestive system, I favor running comprehensive stool analyses to identify them so that they can be treated. I particularly like the Metametrix G.I. Function Profile and the Diagnos-Techs Expanded G.I. Panel. If finances permit running both of them, I think it would be worthwhile. If not, I think I would choose the Metametrix panel. It is important to have the digestive system operating fairly well in order for the methylation protocol to work properly, because it is necessary to have sufficient absorption of nutrients and sufficient ability to excrete toxins, rather than recirculating them. Friendly bacteria produce some of the vitamins needed by the body. Also, correcting a “leaky gut” will take a major load off the immune system, which is dysfunctional in ME/CFS.
I'm not aware of any published, peer-reviewed studies of toxic metals in ME/CFS, but there is abundant anecdotal experience. When I wrote my 2004 poster paper on glutathione in CFS, here is what I wrote, and the secondary level of references that I had to use, in lieu of published studies:

SINCE GLUTATHIONE NORMALLY REMOVES MERCURY FROM THE BODY, ITS DEPLETION CAN BE EXPECTED TO ALLOW BUILDUP OF MERCURY IN CFS PATIENTS. IS THIS OBSERVED?

YES. While there are no published controlled studies of mercury level testing in CFS patients, several clinicians who specialize in treating CFS have reported that many of their patients have high mercury levels:

Ali [77]
Godfrey [78]
Conley [79]
Poesnecker [80]
Teitelbaum [81]
Corsello [82]
Goldberg [83]

In addition, immune testing has shown significantly elevated hypersensitivity to mercury in many CFS patients (Stejskal et al., [84]; Sterzl et al., [85]; and Marcusson, [86]). This suggests that the immune system has responded to elevated mercury levels.

(Note that there have been epidemiological studies that showed no evidence that dental amalgams are associated with CFS as a causal factor [87,88]. However, this does not constitute evidence that amalgams do not give rise to elevated mercury levels after CFS onset in people who have amalgams and who may have developed CFS as a result of other causes.)

77. Ali, M., The Canary and Chronic Fatigue (1995), Life Span Press, Denville, NJ, p. 305.
78. Godfrey, M.E., Dental amalgam, letter to the editor, New Zealand Medical Journal (28 Aug 1998) 111:326.
79. Conley, E.J., America Exhausted (1998), Vitality Press, Flint, MI, p. 196.
80. Poesnecker, G.E., Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000 (1999), Humanitarian Publishing Co., Quakerstown, PA, p. 210.
81. Teitelbaum, J., From Fatigued to Fantastic (2001), Penguin Putnam, New York, p. 189.
82. Corsello, S., Review of the multiple factors (loading theory) in the pathogenesis of chronic fatigue syndrome: theoretical review and treatment, conference syllabus, Latest 21st Century Medical Advances in the Diagnosis and Treatment of Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Related Illnesses, Sept. 19-21, 2002, Los Angeles, CA, Advanced Medical Conferences International, Chicago (info@AdMedCon.com).
83. Goldberg, B., and Trivieri, L., Jr., eds., Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, and Lyme Disease, second edition (2004) Celestial Arts, Berkeley, CA, p. 175.
84. Stejskal, V.D., Danersund, A., Lindvall, A., Hudecek, R., Nordman, V., Yaqob, A., Mayer, W., Bieger, W, and Lindh, U., Metal-specific lymphocytes: biomarkers of sensitivity in man, Neuroendocrinol. Lett. (1999) 20(5):289-298.
85. Sterzl, I., Prochazkova, J., Hrda, P., Bartova, J., Matucha, P., and Stejskal, V.D., Mercury and nickel allergy: risk factors in fatigue and autoimmunity, Neuroendocrinol. Lett. (1999) 20(3-4):221-228.
86. Marcusson, J.A., The frequency of mercury intolerance in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome and healthy controls, Contact Dermatitis (1999) 41(1):60-61.
87. Yip, H.K., Li, D.K., and Yau, D.C., Int. Dent. J. (2003) 53(6):464-8.
88. Bates, M.N., Fawcett, J., Garrett, N., Cutress, T., and Kjellstrom, T., Health effects of dental amalgam exposure: a retrospective cohort study, Int. J. Epidemiol. (2004) 33:1-9.
Thanks Rich as always for your continuing quest to take things to the next step!

Your opinion about something. I had the notion that I probably had some elevated mercury levels, but was not sure because I have had a lot of amalgam fillings in the past and still have a few. About 6 months ago I saw an intergrative doctor and he initially did a 24 hour urine metals test and suprisingly nothing was really elevated out of the normal range. A few weeks later he had me do a "provoked" urine metals test using DMSA, glycine and potassium.

The outcome of this test was a little surprising in that mercury did not move from the unprovoked test, but nickel really went into the elevated range followed by elevations of lead and cesium just barely out of the normal range. Of course I was curious as to why the mercury didn't go up since I still had amalgam fillings. His response was there is some opinions that DMSA or any other chelator will not pull mercury out of an amalgam filling and that they will only remove mercury that has already been methylated into the body.

He also said some don't prescribe to this opinion, but if you look at your situation over the last 30 years and approximately 40 amalgam fillings later, (most of those in the first 5 or so years) you would expect to see mercury levels go up during the provoked test if in fact strong heavy metal chelators remove mercury from the actual fillings.

Thanks again!
-------------------------------
Hi, August59.

I've always doubted that a chelator like DMSA would extract mercury from fillings. In order to do that, I think it would have to be in the saliva. I've never heard of a measurement to see if it passes from the blood to the saliva via the saliva glands, but I doubt that it does. If it does do that, then it would enter the digestive system. Would it be broken down there, and release the mercury for possible reabsorption by the gut? The absorption fraction of inorganic mercury by the gut is pretty low. I guess those are my thoughts on this, but I'm not aware of measurements having been made.

Best regards,

Rich
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
I too got much worse after amalgam filling removal - and that was with a specialist dentist!!
Took me 6months to get back on my feet, and never really returned to pervious levels - I have another 3 fillings to go - I'm having them removed in the next few months - hopefully with some specialist support with chelation and by a different dentist... Cheyney recommends removal of one a year , but I'm running out of time.

I am sorry to hear that you got worse after the amalgam filling removal. Specialist dentists often claim that amalgam and mercury in the teeth is not toxic- how that can be?? But if the dentist believe it is toxic and might compromise your health, then they use to be ok if they follow the protocol for as safe removal as possible.
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Dr Hyams was my doctor in London for a while. I had a lot of tests through him but can't remember if we did this one. The Mercury tests that we did do were negative for me.

Dr Hyams was brought before the GMC and then left the UK for Canada.

The experience we have in the IAOMT in Sweden is that there isn´t any valid test to see if a person is intoxicated from mercury. MELISA test can show an allergy.
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
I'm glad to hear that getting them removed helped you. I'm not sure if amalgams made my health worse or not because I had Lyme for a long time before I got them. It's true there were periods after getting my amalgams where my health did get worse, but it happened at least 6-12 months and afterwards both times occurred after periods of oxidative stress. I also think my Lyme got reactivated because my rash appeared before each time my health got worse. I don't want to rule out mercury as a contributing factor though. Would getting tested for mercury give me an indication of whether or not I need to get my amalgams removed? If so, which test would be the best (and cheapest)?

Sorry to hear that you have Lyme as it also is difficult to treat for many. Symptoms from mercury can occur whenever after you have got them as so many things can increase the "output" of mercury in your body. As far as I know there is no test that gives a valid result if you are intoxicated. I think the 23andme test would give a clue of risks of blocked methylation and/or impaired detoxification in the liver phase I and II (detoxigenomics). The result might give you an idea of the risks with an amalgam filling removal. But it is also about the dentists knowledge and your antioxidant levels.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Sorry to hear that you have Lyme as it also is difficult to treat for many. Symptoms from mercury can occur whenever after you have got them as so many things can increase the "output" of mercury in your body. As far as I know there is no test that gives a valid result if you are intoxicated. I think the 23andme test would give a clue of risks of blocked methylation and/or impaired detoxification in the liver phase I and II (detoxigenomics). The result might give you an idea of the risks with an amalgam filling removal. But it is also about the dentists knowledge and your antioxidant levels.
So the test Cutler recommends isn't accurate? I don't know much about his protocol, but some people swear by it. And I think Rich said something about a DMSA provocation test. I realize you just said that there is no valid test so I hesitate even asking you these questions...
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
So the test Cutler recommends isn't accurate? I don't know much about his protocol, but some people swear by it. And I think Rich said something about a DMSA provocation test. I realize you just said that there is no valid test so I hesitate even asking you these questions...

I wish I had good answers to your question...Could you please send me a link to the test that Cutler recommend? As long as some people get more sick of a specific protocol it isn´t safe, and that is the most interesting question to get answered before starting up with one. There are always success stories but with our individual differences I think only gene testing can give an idea of the risks and how to go on.

As provocation tests release mercury from places where it has been stored, and if you can´t bind it, due to lack of glutathione and/or bad binding/conjugating capacity or of other reasons, you might get very bad from it (or any detox protocol).
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
I have read what Rich has said about mercury and methylation, but there doesn't seem to be a one-size-fits-all approach in regards to methylation, chelation, and amalgam removal based on his posts in the past year or two:

I will read the inputs from Rich and will be back later