high glutamate

[lizw118]

I tested high for glutamate a while ago. I also had a high ratio of glutamic acid to glutamate ratio (not sure what that means). I got some excellent initial info from Rich on this a year or so ago but I would like to find out if anyone knows how to lower glutamate levels? Also, I understand glutamate causes excitotoxicity, but what other symptoms would it cause? I would like to see if I can focus on lowering the levels, if possible.
Liz

 

[SaraM]

And I would like to know how I can increase my glutamic acid level. My glutamine/ glutamic acid ratio is 7 which I guess is considered low.My glutamine level is high normal.

 

[lizw118]

I tested high for glutamate a while ago. I also had a high ratio of glutamic acid to glutamate ratio (not sure what that means). I got some excellent initial info from Rich on this a year or so ago but I would like to find out if anyone knows how to lower glutamate levels? Also, I understand glutamate causes excitotoxicity, but what other symptoms would it cause? I would like to see if I can focus on lowering the levels, if possible.
Liz

 

[Valentijn]

Supplementing with cysteine (N-acetylcysteine) might lower glutamate, if glycine is also high enough.

 

[lizw118]

Thanks Valentijn
My glycine biomarker came out low a while ago, too, on the same test. I take magnesium in the form of magnesium glycine, hoping that I might get glycine that way, but I am not sure if that is enough, or even if that works at all. Should I supplement NAC and glycine together?
Thanks
Liz

 

[Valentijn]

Thanks Valentijn
My glycine biomarker came out low a while ago, too, on the same test. I take magnesium in the form of magnesium glycine, hoping that I might get glycine that way, but I am not sure if that is enough, or even if that works at all. Should I supplement NAC and glycine together?

Supplementing both NAC and glycine will probably work to lower glutamate - the idea is that they combine with the glutamate to form glutathione, simultaneously lowering glutamate and raising glutathione.

My personal experience with supplementing NAC (glycine was already very high), was that it helped immensely with my sleeping issues. Also, after supplementing NAC for 6 months or so, my glutamate stayed low even after a week of not supplementing it prior to testing it again.

 

[greenshots]

The Yasko camp suggests these for glutamate balance:

L Theanine but if not COMT +\+
GABA
Lithium orotate which also helps with B12
Magnesium
Branched chain amino acids
& zinc but under 30-35 mg or so

There are many others too but keep in mind that those who don't do well on mag, don't seem to do well on zinc either.

I'd also really avoid heavy glutamates in the diet which are red meats & pretty much all processed foods

Good luck!
angela

 

[Seadragon]

Taurine has helped me a little with this.

Magnesium Taurate is good or even Taurine alone works for me.

Theanine seemed to give me rebound anxiety when it wears off, don't know why so I don't use it. Most seem to find it helpful though.

I should add that since starting Freddd's protocol, my anxiety and other things I linked to possible high glutamate and excitotoxicity in the brain and CNS have improved noticeably.

Love Esperanza x

 

[greenshots]

Taurine has helped me a little with this.

Magnesium Taurate is good or even Taurine alone works for me.

Theanine seemed to give me rebound anxiety when it wears off, don't know why so I don't use it. Most seem to find it helpful though.

I should add that since starting Freddd's protocol, my anxiety and other things I linked to possible high glutamate and excitotoxicity in the brain and CNS have improved noticeably.

Love Esperanza x

Makes ya wonder about your Comt then since Theanine acts as a methyl group. it might be the reason you felt that way. Kids on the spectrum with a full comt don't usually do well on it either. Interesting how many factors there are though.

 

[Seadragon]

Hi Greenshots,

What is a comt?

Love Esperanza x

 

[greenshots]

COMT is the catecholamine enzyme in the methylation pathway. This area processes dopamine and when a complete defect is here, it doesn't clean it up so well. This seems good since dopamine is such a great happy hormone but it causes lots of mood swings, volatility, and mood problems. These are usually the people labeled as bipolar all the time, especially if their doc gives them a bunch of B12 or Ritalin or something. They get all aggressive or manic and then everybody thinks they're nuts when they really just need a stable flow of dopa instead of the huge ups & downs that happen. The kids with this defect are usually a problem cuz even high tyrosine or dopamine foods cause huge ups & downs. Its probably the reason many of those with autism are crazy about bananas and seem super happy eating them. But they're also full of other feel good ingredients. Anyway, that's the COMT.

Of course, it can't be as simple as that in methylation since the VDR & CBS enzymes also makes a huge difference in whether the COMT is gonna be trouble, but that's a whole nother story.



Angela

This handout helped me understand it better
http://www.autismnti.com/images/Website-_Yasko_Education.pdf

 

[Lotus97]

The Yasko camp suggests these for glutamate balance:

L Theanine but if not COMT +\+
GABA
Lithium orotate which also helps with B12
Magnesium
Branched chain amino acids
& zinc but under 30-35 mg or so

There are many others too but keep in mind that those who don't do well on mag, don't seem to do well on zinc either.

I'd also really avoid heavy glutamates in the diet which are red meats & pretty much all processed foods

Good luck!
angela

What did you mean by "Lithium orotate" helps with B12? I've been considering taking lithium orotate for anxiety, depression, and insomnia. Since I started methylation I'm curious how B12 fits in with all this.

 

[greenshots]

Lithium helps with b 12 transport

 

[Living Dead]

How can I get tested for glutamate, cysteine and glycine?

 

[greenshots]

How can I get tested for glutamate, cysteine and glycine?

A urine amino acid test

 

[Living Dead]

Where do I get that? Doctor, online, quack healer? The lab my doc uses doesn't list such a test on their website.

Edit: I'm located in Norway.

Edit: Also, why would I want a urine test when I find blood tests on google? Wouldn't a blood test normally be much more accurate?

 

[Dreambirdie]

The Yasko camp suggests these for glutamate balance:

L Theanine but if not COMT +\+
GABA
Lithium orotate which also helps with B12
Magnesium
Branched chain amino acids
& zinc but under 30-35 mg or so

There are many others too but keep in mind that those who don't do well on mag, don't seem to do well on zinc either.

I'd also really avoid heavy glutamates in the diet which are red meats & pretty much all processed foods

Good luck!
angela

I must have a glutamate imbalance, because my brain is whacked out and my sleep is shot lately. At least that must be part of it.

I have 2 of the COMTs +- (see below). I've found that theanine sort of helps to calm my brain, and I can take fairly large amounts before I feel it. Tryptophan used to work very well (for sleep), but right now it's not. GABA, on the other hand, causes *severe* anxiety, even at just 100 mg. Very weird how that is.

Lithium arginate doesn't seem to phase me, though I haven't tried the orotate kind. Magnesium is my friend that I cannot live without. Same with potassium. ZInc makes me very wired.

I eat red meat every day and need it. I also eat a lot of vegies and almost no grains or dairy, which can be a problem.

Interesting what you said about BANANAS. Going thru my severe insomnia right, I am craving bananas and need to eat at least one every day.

 

[Lotus97]

This is an interesting article about glutamate and inflammation. You can enlarge the diagrams by clicking on them. This is the link to the rest of the article: http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=1590
(I'm just posting the introduction and the part about glutamate, but there's a lot more)
Inflammation, Glutamate, and Glia in Depression: A Literature Review
Abstract
Multiple lines of evidence suggest that inflammation and glutamate dysfunction contribute to the pathophysiology of depression. In this review we provide an overview of how these two systems may interact. Excess levels of inflammatory mediators occur in a subgroup of depressed patients. Studies of acute experimental activation of the immune system with endotoxin and of chronic activation during interferon-α treatment show that inflammation can cause depression. Peripheral inflammation leads to microglial activation which could interfere with excitatory amino acid metabolism leading to inappropriate glutamate receptor activation. Loss of astroglia, a feature of depression, upsets the balance of anti- and pro-inflammatory mediators and further impairs the removal of excitatory amino acids. Microglia activated by excess inflammation, astroglial loss, and inappropriate glutamate receptor activation ultimately disrupt the delicate balance of neuroprotective versus neurotoxic effects in the brain, potentially leading to depression.

Inflammation and Glutamate
Over the last few years, evidence suggests that glutamate plays a role in depression.47,48 Patients with depression, both during an acute episode and during remission, have elevated levels of glutamate in some brain regions.49,50 The N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) glutamate receptor antagonist ketamine produces a profound antidepressant effect with almost immediate onset,51,52 and recent data53,54 on antidepressant properties of the glutamate modulator riluzole are promising. The current hypothesis47 holds that excessive glutamate action, especially extrasynaptic glutamate, may be deleterious for neuronal function and contribute to depression.

Inflammatory mediators can, through activation of the kynurenine pathway (Figure 1), increase glutamate receptor agonism. The two main end-products of the kynurenine pathway bind to NMDA receptors: Kynurenic acid is an NMDA receptor antagonist, while quinolinic acid is an NMDA receptor agonist. Although IDO, the rate-limiting enzyme in the kynurenine pathway, is expressed in multiple cell types, microglia are the only cells in the central nervous system that express the complete enzymatic pathway required for the synthesis of quinolinic acid.55 Therefore, inflammatory mediators acting on microglia will increase the quinolinic acid to kynurenic acid ratio, leading to net NMDA agonism.15,56 In addition to NMDA agonist action, quinolinic acid directly causes release of glutamate.57 Thus, inflammatory mediators can cause an environment of excess glutamate receptor agonism and resultant neurotoxicity. Although glutamate can cause neurotoxicity, it is important to point out that neurotoxicity in depression has not been unequivocally demonstrated.

Interactions between inflammatory mediators and glutamate are bi-directional. Glutamate causes TNF release from endotoxin-activated microglia.58 The NMDA antagonist ketamine inhibits endotoxin-induced TNF production in glia,59 and memantine, another NMDA receptor antagonist, decreased endotoxin-induced activation of microglia.60 Thus, on one hand, inflammatory mediators can cause an environment of excess glutamate receptor agonism through increased quinolinic acid production and glutamate release. On the other hand, activation of NMDA receptors, by glutamate or quinolinic acid, may activate microglia and cause further release of inflammatory mediators, causing a vicious circle (Figure 2). Astrocytes are responsible for taking up excess glutamate to protect neurons from toxicity. This occurs through excitatory amino acid transporters (EAAT).61,62 Knockdown of glial transporters (EAAT1 or EAAT2) leads to glutamate excitotoxicity, while knockdown of the neuronal transporter does not.63,64 In cortical lesions in multiple sclerosis, the presence of activated microglia correlated with focal loss of EAAT1/2, while no loss was seen in the absence of activated microglia.65 This indicates that inflammatory mediators released by microglia adversely affect astroglial expression of EAAT and, thus, could impair glutamate removal.

 

[helen1]

Where do I get that? Doctor, online, quack healer? The lab my doc uses doesn't list such a test on their website.

Edit: I'm located in Norway.

Edit: Also, why would I want a urine test when I find blood tests on google? Wouldn't a blood test normally be much more accurate?

Hi Living Dead,
Urine has metabolites in them which tell you what your body has processed. Blood levels tell you what's circulating in your blood, but tells you little to nothing about what your body is able to transport into cells and use in cells. If you do a search here for what tests you want, you'll get lots of info and pros and cons of different ones. Rich Vank is particularly knowledgeable about tests.
Good luck!

 

[Lynn_M]

Rich posted this in June 2012

"Hi, Hoops,
If the trial and error approach does not pay off for you, I suggest running some tests to see what is going on. The most helpful are the Health Diagnostics methylation pathways panel and the Metametrix 40 plasma amino acids panel. The first requires an order from a physician or a chiropractor, and costs $295. Contact info is below. The second can be obtained without a doctor's order from www.directlabs.com."

I have seen this same recommendation for the plasma amino acid test on other posts me made. I have seen him go into more explanation for why he prefers plasma over amino. You could do a search on Richvank and amino acid test and maybe find his explanation.