Question about TH1/TH2 immune response in late stage Lyme and Buhner Protocol

[wallace]

I've avoided Astragulus like the plague after reading what Buhner said about it's effect in late stage Lyme. Astragulus stimulates a TH1 immune response and xrunner explains why Astragulus should be avoided.

Here's where the confusion comes in for me. In the past, Buhner recommended Sarsaparilla/Smilax for herx and mopping up toxins. In a recent quote he says he now prefers chlorella instead of Sarsaparilla. At this point I should mention that about 30% of the population has some sort of intolerance to chlorella and should use caution when taking it. Perhaps start out with half a capsule and work your way up. I don't have an intolerance to chlorella, but I just read that chlorella along with some other supplements I've been taking or have considered taking or have taken in the past also stimulate a TH1 response. I also just found out that some of the supplements I have been taking or are planning on taking initiate a TH2 response. There's an article about Dr. Cheney who believes that many people with CFS have a TH2 dominant response and need to shift it to a TH1 dominant response. It also says that Ampligen shifts from TH2 to TH1.
http://www.ei-resource.org/articles/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-articles/dr.-cheney:-balance-the-immune-system-(th1th2)-/
This is all rather confusing. How do I balance my TH1 and TH2? I don't think I'm going to have any luck convincing my doctor to have me tested. Is it possible to support both TH1 and TH2? I found this from Dr. Jeff

 

[wallace]

We need more information. I urge people to buy this. Tests for bartonella are useless:http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-...536&sr=1-1&keywords=stephen+buhner+bartonella

 

[Lotus97]

This is all rather confusing. How do I balance my TH1 and TH2? I don't think I'm going to have any luck convincing my doctor to have me tested. Is it possible to support both TH1 and TH2?

That's kind of tricky. Especially with Lyme. Many people here are Th2 dominant and want to shift to Th1, but for Lyme if you stimulate a Th1 response with something such as astragalus you'll likely experience excessive inflammation. Also, if you're glutathione depleted then certain aspects of the Th1 immune response such as natural killer cells and CD8 cytoxic T lymphocytes won't function properly. I posted a link to a thread about that topic earlier in this thread. Just to sum up what Rich says in that thread, restoring glutathione through improving a person's methylation would increase the efficacy of a person's Th1 immune response.

It seems that the herbs Buhner recommends helps build up the immune system in a targeted manner. For example, cat's claw is supposed to increase CD56 and CD57 expression on natural killer cells which are suppressed by the Lyme spirochetes. It's possible that some people would need prescription antibiotics in addition to the herbs in Buhner's protocol, but prescription antibiotics alone might not be effective for many people with chronic/late stage Lyme. From what I understand, early stage Lyme is usually easily treated with just antibiotics. And Buhner actually recommends astragalus for early stage Lyme (just not late stage Lyme).

 

[wallace]

Healing Lyme Disease Coinfections: Complementary and Holistic Treatments for Bartonella and Mycoplasma (No) [Paperback]

Stephen Harrod Buhner

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Book Description

Release date: May 5, 2013 | Series: No
A guide to the natural treatment of two of the most common and damaging coinfections of Lyme disease--Bartonella and Mycoplasma
• Reveals how these conditions often go undiagnosed, complicate Lyme treatment, and cause a host of symptoms--from arthritis to severe brain dysfunction
• Outlines natural treatments for both infections, with herbs and supplements for specific symptoms and to combat overreactions of the immune system
• Reviews the latest scientific research on Bartonella and Mycoplasma coinfections and how treatment with antibiotics is often ineffective
Each year Harvard researchers estimate there are nearly 250,000 new Lyme disease infections--only 10 percent of which will be accurately diagnosed. One of the largest factors in misdiagnosis of Lyme is the presence of other tick-borne infections, which mask or aggravate the symptoms of Lyme disease as well as complicate treatment. Two of the most common and damaging Lyme coinfections are Bartonella and Mycoplasma. Nearly 35 million people in the United States are asymptomatically infected with each of these pathogens, and at least 10 percent will become symptomatic every year--with symptoms ranging from arthritis to severe brain dysfunction.
Distilling hundreds of peer-reviewed journal articles on the latest scientific research on Bartonella, Mycoplasma, and Lyme disease, Stephen Buhner examines the complex synergy between these infections and reveals how all three can go undiagnosed or resurface after antibiotic treatment. He explains how these coinfections create cytokine cascades in the body--essentially sending the immune system into an overblown, uncontrolled response in much the same way that rheumatoid arthritis or cancer can. Detailing effective natural holistic methods centered on herbs and supplements, such as the systemic antibacterial herb Sida acuta, which acts to protect blood cells from invading organisms, he reveals how to treat specific symptoms, interrupt the cytokine cascades, and bring the immune system back into balance as well as complement ongoing Lyme disease treatments.
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