Folate Receptor Antibodies

[dbkita]

Methylation increases catecholamine production. NE produced directly in the sns will exacerbate inflamation.

 

[Lotus97]

On the other hand I agree wholeheartedly that there is something very contradictory going when people react to "crumbs" as you put it, so violently. I don't know what to say there. Theoretically someone should not react really bad to 20 mcg of methylfolate but then not have problems eating meat. Couple of portions of animal flesh and they get the same amount of methylfolate.

I know you just said you "don't know what to say there", but I'm going to ask anyways because you usually do have an answer for everything. Do you think it has to do with deficiency as some people have suggested? And since you didn't mention SNPs, does that mean you don't think the reaction is due to certain SNPs? My symptoms continued for 5 weeks until I stopped methylfolate. I suppose someone could make an argument that the high dose of folic acid I was taking at the time was constantly causing a deficiency, but I'm not yet convinced.

 

[Lotus97]

The way I hear some people talk about methylation supplements is the same way drug addicts talk. I used to use drugs so I'm very familiar with that mindset. You get an initial bump of good feelings, but it doesn't last. You're on a rollercoaster of highs and lows trying to get back the euphoria you were feeling earlier. When I started getting depressed a few months ago I began taking B12 again and I did get a mood boost, but it didn't last. We're all adults here and everyone is free to do what they want, but I'm not sure messing around with your neurotransmitters is necessarily going to be problem-free in the long run.

 

[dbkita]

I know you just said you "don't know what to say there", but I'm going to ask anyways because you usually do have an answer for everything. Do you think it has to do with deficiency as some people have suggested? And since you didn't mention SNPs, does that mean you don't think the reaction is due to certain SNPs? My symptoms continued for 5 weeks until I stopped methylfolate. I suppose someone could make an argument that the high dose of folic acid I was taking at the time was constantly causing a deficiency, but I'm not yet convinced.

Hehe I wish I had answers for everything.

Honestly I don't know. This aspect has really puzzled me. Clearly there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to support that people are simply very intolerant of even small amounts. What confuses me most is that some people are talking about 20-30 mcg setting them off, maybe even less. While most plant based food sources are not high in methylfolate in terms of percent of total composition of folate, animal meat is. So a question is do these same individuals get the same result from eating oysters, mussels, etc? Or even three normal servings of meat a day (7-10 mcg methylfolate per serving roughly)? In theory methylfolate is methylfolate, and is well absorbed in the gut provided no ascorbic acid.

Methyl b12 is arguably a different story since in reality oral absorption is so poor that very little makes it through the gut in food sources. But then some people claim they have awful symptoms on small doses of oral mb12 so I don't know what to say there at all.

I am not convinced either that folic acid you were taking was somehow making you intolerant to methylfolate. The argument is that folic acid drives you to deficiency so that you are suddenly overnight so low in methylfolate that tiny amounts drive you into bad symptoms for five weeks? That argument does not sit well with me.

On the other hand that does not absolve folic acid for having its own issues. Iif you take folic acid in high amounts, one of two things is going to happen:
a) you convert it just fine and you increase THF levels which may or may not lead to l5mthf and increased methylation based on your MTHFR efficiency and other factors (like b12 etc.).
or
b) you don't convert folic acid well in your liver, you don't get the bang for the buck with THF increase and methylation is not increased, and the pileup in folic acid leads to issues with other folate intermediates in terms of transport and cellular uptake.

Case (b) clearly is not desirable. Case (a) is at best a long way around with possible inefficiencies along the way that could have been shortcut and optimized with methylfolate or at least folinic acid. Hence my viewpoints on folic acid the synthesized oxidized version that mankind's genome never really experienced until the last few decades.

If someone comes to me and says they can't stand methylfolate but they tolerate well folic acid or folinic acid, I have to scratch my head. The end game is methyfolate unless the folate cycle is blocked. In the latter scenario taking folic or folinic acid means we are masking a folate deficiency with placebo and maybe doing harm in the process. If it converts to methylfolate then great but then why does methylfolate cause such a problem if titrated properly.

So yeah I am still confused on this topic, sorry. And so far I have not seen a convincing argument.

I think it is hard to argue for phantom SNPs we don't know about only because of the questions I raised above. One remote possibility is there a gut dysbiosis that loves the methyfolate directly supplemented. But if that is true then how can their be "growth" from doses that are commensurate with what is found in animal protein sources in a normal diet.

So around and around and still confused.

The last option is there is something else in the formulation that sets a person off. But the brands being used, don't seem to have many problems in that respect. The exception for me is Solgar Metafolin. Since it has corn and I have bad IgG reactions to corn, my inflammation takes off in a couple of days.

Anyways I will stop rambling now

 

[Red04]

The way I hear some people talk about methylation supplements is the same way drug addicts talk. I used to use drugs so I'm very familiar with that mindset. You get an initial bump of good feelings, but it doesn't last. You're on a rollercoaster of highs and lows trying to get back the euphoria you were feeling earlier. When I started getting depressed a few months ago I began taking B12 again and I did get a mood boost, but it didn't last. We're all adults here and everyone is free to do what they want, but I'm not sure messing around with your neurotransmitters is necessarily going to be problem-free in the long run.

Is this for real? Are you serious? You sure like to throw stones for someone who hasn't cured themself.

This is the most ignorant $hit I've ever seen on here.

Go cure yourself with all the wonderful knowledge you like to copy/paste up here and develop lotus protocol and actually help people get better.

 

[pattismith]

Lose the milk:

A milk-free diet downregulates folate receptor autoimmunity in cerebral folate deficiency syndrome

it's very interesting!

in 2002 when I had a major crash, I was not able to cook food, so was just eating
-chicken
-rice
-honey, tea, apples
-coca cola (be careful, I'm not avocating it as a cure!)

5 years later, the crash healed progressively, I stopped Tramadol.
I was very weak with headaches, I had lost 6 kg.

So I decided that to have my strengh back, I needed to eat varied diet, and I introduced dairies back.

This time I had a major mental crash, I fell into a major depression for 3 years.
It took me many years to recover.

I wonder if these antibodies played a role!
It could be, as I'm homozygous mutated for the MTHFR gene which makes more sensitive to this kind of problem..