confused about methylation protcol ...

[sweetlily]

hi ...

i am somewhat confused by reading so much. i will ask and see if anyone can help me?

i took the OAT test, was told: B6, B12, glutathione, very low. Other b vitamins, low.

seratonin and dopamine, very low.

ok i am homozygous c6677T so i need folate, not folic acid.
at least my homoscysteine is good (i think) - 6.

fortunately i have been taking a thorne multi without copper for years which is 1 mg folate (half folinic acid, half l-f-mtf.) i also take a high quality enzymatic b multi. (i take a bunch of other things so i am hoping to cut to the chase here.)

a year ago my dr. gave me a vial of mCbl and i started injecting .6 mg once a week. (It's probably turned into hydroxy cbm since i just left it in its amber bottle in the fridge?)

i also was taking liposomal gluthione every morning and p5p supplemental in the evening, so these OAT results were a shock to me.I was already supplementing with these!

after getting the OAT (like a month or so ago), he told me to start taking 1 g mCbl injections daily and 1 g methylfolate, plus one packet liposomal glutathione of another brand. and 3 of the p5p a day. i started getting weird headaches.

first i cut out the glutathione. still the headaches. ... anyway i've been trying to learn how to add in b12 and folate and p5p. i can take the p5p twice day but somehow now i feel really stuck. I can't manage to feel right at all.

i bought some adCbm and only took the mCbm twice week, .5 mg. The last time i didn't add in extra folate (i have 1 gm in my vitamins.)

Well, for the last few days i've been really nauseous when i take my supps/eat. This is totally unusual for me.

must this be from the b12? can't figure out how to proceed.More folate? Less b12? i just feel lost. Not sure what tests to take to see what is needed next or what supps to take to balance out what i've done. the only thing that seems to help is to stop but i want to go on the protocol without getting sick.

symptoms: sound sensitivity, muscle aches in back and legs, neuropathies in trunk, headaches, some depression/apathy... let's start there.

please let me know if any more info desired or helpful and maybe i can provide. thanks in advance for any help. this is a great board!

+/+ MTHFR C677t, MTR A2756G, MTRRA664A, VDR Taq, CBS A360A
+/- COMT V158M, COMT H62H, MAO R297R, MTRR A66G, CBSC699T

 

[Sushi]

sweetlily

Just for note, you need B2 to absorb B6. I was taking both but found I was not able to break down the B2 and thus was low in both B2 and B6. Rich suggested taking Source Naturals coenzymated B2 (sublingual) which is already broken down. That might be worth a try.

Sushi

 

[sweetlily]

thanks, Sushi! i tried that, actually, and it tastes so weird that i have a hard time consuming it. Maybe i would do okay just swallowing it.

 

[Lotus97]

thanks, Sushi! i tried that, actually, and it tastes so weird that i have a hard time consuming it. Maybe i would do okay just swallowing it.

You won't absorb as much if you swallow it, but taking it sublingually isn't necessary. The only B vitamin you need to take sublingually is B12 because the absorption rate of B12 in the gut is very low compared to taking it sublingually.

first i cut out the glutathione. still the headaches. ... anyway i've been trying to learn how to add in b12 and folate and p5p. i can take the p5p twice day but somehow now i feel really stuck. I can't manage to feel right at all.

i bought some adCbm and only took the mCbm twice week, .5 mg. The last time i didn't add in extra folate (i have 1 gm in my vitamins.)

Well, for the last few days i've been really nauseous when i take my supps/eat. This is totally unusual for me.

must this be from the b12? can't figure out how to proceed.More folate? Less b12? i just feel lost. Not sure what tests to take to see what is needed next or what supps to take to balance out what i've done. the only thing that seems to help is to stop but i want to go on the protocol without getting sick.

symptoms: sound sensitivity, muscle aches in back and legs, neuropathies in trunk, headaches, some depression/apathy... let's start there.

Did the symptoms start after you began taking B12 and methylfolate? I usually recommend lowering dosages if you are experiencing adverse symptoms. Some people are only able to tolerate a small amount especially if they're COMT. (although I'm a little confused about the difference between heterozygous and homozygous so please correct me if I'm wrong). 1 mg (1000 mcg) of methylfolate is going to be too high for many people here. Some people can't even tolerate 200 mcg of methylfolate when they start methylation. Since methylcobalamin stays in your system a relatively short time I would recommend taking at least once or twice a day rather than a few times a week.

 

[Freddd]

hi ...

i am somewhat confused by reading so much. i will ask and see if anyone can help me?

i took the OAT test, was told: B6, B12, glutathione, very low. Other b vitamins, low.

seratonin and dopamine, very low.

ok i am homozygous c6677T so i need folate, not folic acid.
at least my homoscysteine is good (i think) - 6.

fortunately i have been taking a thorne multi without copper for years which is 1 mg folate (half folinic acid, half l-f-mtf.) i also take a high quality enzymatic b multi. (i take a bunch of other things so i am hoping to cut to the chase here.)

a year ago my dr. gave me a vial of mCbl and i started injecting .6 mg once a week. (It's probably turned into hydroxy cbm since i just left it in its amber bottle in the fridge?)

i also was taking liposomal gluthione every morning and p5p supplemental in the evening, so these OAT results were a shock to me.I was already supplementing with these!

after getting the OAT (like a month or so ago), he told me to start taking 1 g mCbl injections daily and 1 g methylfolate, plus one packet liposomal glutathione of another brand. and 3 of the p5p a day. i started getting weird headaches.

first i cut out the glutathione. still the headaches. ... anyway i've been trying to learn how to add in b12 and folate and p5p. i can take the p5p twice day but somehow now i feel really stuck. I can't manage to feel right at all.

i bought some adCbm and only took the mCbm twice week, .5 mg. The last time i didn't add in extra folate (i have 1 gm in my vitamins.)

Well, for the last few days i've been really nauseous when i take my supps/eat. This is totally unusual for me.

must this be from the b12? can't figure out how to proceed.More folate? Less b12? i just feel lost. Not sure what tests to take to see what is needed next or what supps to take to balance out what i've done. the only thing that seems to help is to stop but i want to go on the protocol without getting sick.

symptoms: sound sensitivity, muscle aches in back and legs, neuropathies in trunk, headaches, some depression/apathy... let's start there.

please let me know if any more info desired or helpful and maybe i can provide. thanks in advance for any help. this is a great board!

+/+ MTHFR C677t, MTR A2756G, MTRRA664A, VDR Taq, CBS A360A
+/- COMT V158M, COMT H62H, MAO R297R, MTRR A66G, CBSC699T

Hi Sweetlily


Here are the most common symptoms sets after starting MeCbl. AdoCbl and l-Methylfolate, usually hypokalemia and/or donut hole folate insufficiency.


Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with cyanocobalamin it is very common with methylb12 and adensosylb12 and less so with hydroxycobalamin..

IBS – Steady constipation , Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum, Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness, Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), Increased pulse rate, Increased blood pressure, Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.

Group 2a - Both

IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation

Group 2b – Either or both

Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue

Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract, increased hypersensitive responses , Skin rashes, Increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores, Coated tongue, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, Increase irritability, Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Old symptoms returning, Heart palpitations, Bleeding easily.



Group 4 - Hydroxycbl onset, degraded methylcbl onset, methylcbl after photolytic breakdown onset.

Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.

 

[sweetlily]

Hi Freddd, thanks for answering my question. I'm not sure which category i fit into, mostly i got headaches and nausea. I backed off for a while and now i am taking a shot of .5 mg meCbl every 3 days, alternating with 2000 mg adCbl and then hydroxyCbl 1000 mg and tolerating, so this is a real step up.

i also think your comment, Lotus, is interesting, about spacing the doses in to shorter intervals, perhaps, over the course of a day. i am pleased that so far (we're talking a week here) i am doing better. Perhaps my going low on sulfur for a month helped though i ended that to some extent.

my main concern or question is the mix of the MTR a 2756g +/+ and the MTRR a664a +/+. while perhaps no one knows the answer (?)... i wonder if i have a genetic inability to process too much methyl b12? --- or will working my way up slowly still be an effect strategy? this is my main question? i have also tried lithium oraotate (*maybe too much, .05 to .10, naive creature that i am, listened to doctor) as this caused some "overdrive" i suspect ...

if i were to start this again i should so minute amounts. again, i wonder, does it make any difference at all to build up, or is my blockage pretty ominous?

thanks in advance. it feels great to get some b12 into me.

ps i tried to get some carnitine fumarate into me (500 mg) and not sure if this was too much. my potassium levels however tested within mid range on a blood test.currently doing about 125 mg potassium a day. (yes i am a lightweight but at least i am back in the program, having had to shut down for a while due to the intense side effects.) i am seeing progress.

thanks in advance.

 

[Lotus97]

sweetlily
I've heard of people getting headaches from increasing methylation too much. There are a probably a lot of possibilities, but CBS issues or high histamine could be some of many different causes. Also, it's possible that you don't fit into any of the groups on Freddd's list. I suspect many of those symptoms are ones he's experienced himself so they might not all be applicable to very many people, but hypokalemia is a serious issue (much more common at the higher doses).