You guys need to try this Now Acai, seriously!

[CAcfs]

Sue, interesting. I wonder if it is working as an anti-inflammatory for you? In terms of your pain. Thanks for letting me know.

I have noticed it does absolutely nothing for my brain fog/derealization, but it helps my STAMINA and ability to be "up." So if I didn't bother getting up off couch which is in front of my TV, or away from computer (the two places I usually am, all day), I might not notice that I even have more stamina. So in other words, if I was watching a Real Housewives marathon on TV I might not think Acai did anything....just a thought. Though like I said, sometimes I feel better without getting up per se, although I normally get up like 100 times to take a potty break, so maybe that is when I notice I feel better, even if I'm not trying to walk or do chores? Where I notice it the most is walking, doing chores like dishes or dinner, or running errands. But I wanted to bring that up, that if you are stitting still you may not notice the increase in ability to tolerate exercise/have stamina. But even just walking out to the car and running an errand to store, you'd probably notice, unless you have the stamina for that anyways.

Glad it helps your pain!

So based on reading about Pall and also getting re-inspired into methylation stuff, I tried my TMG for the first time today, and I got a similar boost in stamina that I get with Acai. Maybe a little less so in terms of strength, but similar in terms of what it actually helps with.

 

[richvank]

Hi, CAcfs.

I appreciate your detailed descriptions of what Acai does for you, and your comparisons to the responses you experience from B12 and TMG.

I continue to suspect that what Acai is doing for you is to give you a temporary boost in your glutathione level, especially in your skeletal muscles. That would make sense, since Acai is known to be a powerful antioxidant.

For a more permanent raising of glutathione, the only thing I have found is to lift the partial methylation cycle block, and the best way to do that is with a methylation protocol, which includes at a minimum a relatively high dosage of B12, by injection or sublingually, together with supplementing an active form of folate (methylfolate or folinic acid, with methylfolate being more effective).

If a person gets B12 alone, I think that they get the benefit of improving the function of the methylmalonate pathway, which feeds more fuel to the mitochondria, producing more ATP and hence more energy to drive the muscles. However, without adding the folate to it, the person does not lift the partial methylation cycle block and does not get the permanent improvement in glutathione level, which gives the longterm improvement in mito function and thus in ATP production and energy.

TMG feeds the alternative BHMT pathway for methylation in the liver and kidneys, and that can give temporary benefit, too, but it does not lift the partial block in methionine synthase, which is the main methylation pathway.

So I think that all the things you report are consistent with the GD-MCB hypothesis, and that methylation treatment would give you a longer lasting version of what you are getting from the Acai.

Another thing that strikes me is that perhaps taking Acai with a methylation protocol would prevent the initial glutathione drop that I believe produces the excitotoxicity that many people report on methylation treatment.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[CAcfs]

Thanks, Rich. Big thanks.

Now was it methyl or hyxdroxy B12 that you are recommending (in high doses, sublingual or injectable)? I know it sounds silly (because I type a lot), but I have a hard time reading. :/ :/ I think I'll use my "coffee time" today to brush up on your posts.

I remember my time on the prescription Cerefolin NAC as being decent (it contains L-Methylfolate/Methylcobalamin/N-Acetylcysteine). After trying those separately, NAC seems the best for me of the three, but I could be wrong of course. I understand there is value in taking them together, but I was still interested to see if it was one element.

I have done methyl B12 shots myself that an LLMD prescribed, and those were okay, but not life-changing. I actually remember noticing more of a brain/alertness/mood boost (IQ higher, sound smarter) than a physical boost. And yeah, that's great, but no good if you can't leave the house. But all in all, I've considered going back on them. I don't think I was on active folate at the time of the methylB12 shots, but I do remember trying your Simplified Protocol around that time too. I think once I started taking the full pill of most of the 5, I did notice benefit in all around wellbeing, so I think perhaps the hydroxy B12 is better for me (Perque sublingual). I did not experience any kind of die-off/adjustment on the 1/4 tabs like the warnings I heard. The point of all this is that I remember the hydroxy B12 as being better than methyl.

Honestly, I don't notice too much from active folate alone, that I can perceive, even when I am doing my sublinguals (i was doing both methyl and perque hydroxy, until I ran out recently). Though I understand the body stores folate, so maybe I can't gauge it based on each dose, and its cumulative. Maybe the folate wasn't really helping me, without the NAC. Is the NAC what one would call a critical cofactor (again, I've only been able to read chunks of threads)?

Thanks again.

Just to clarify, I do think the Acai boost for me is better than what I have experienced so far, even with the B12's and active folate. Not questioning Rich's logic at all, just giving my experience. Though hydroxy B12 comes close-ISH. I think maybe what the Acai is providing is making my POTS better, it's helping the blood pump upwards, instantly? Does glutathione do that? Because the Acai bottle does say that it will help your blood vessels/cardiovascular. But maybe they mean moreso for heart disease.

One more piece I can provide is that when I took a HIGH dose of Wobenzym on an empty stomach (10-15 pills at once), I would also compare that to the Acai boost, so maybe it is a blood flow benefit I'm getting. Maybe this is an entirely different benefit than supporting glutathione? Not sure, just speculating. Rich, I don't meant to push you to your limits of sanity, so don't feel pressure to reply, though I appreciate it when you do.

Edit to add: I realize lifting the methylation cycle block is a process, and so talking about receiving instant benefits is not necessarily the point of that endeavor. I have done the active folate/B12 daily for 3 months at least (maybe 6+?) but perhaps it was easy to take any benefits for granted. In general, what I'm looking for is the ability to leave the house to run errands/exercise, so I gauge things based on if I can do that or not, and I can say that the Acai was more of a help, at least for now. I think what Rich is saying is "if you see a boost from Acai and its because of increased glutathione, you should stick with lifting the methylation cycle block" and I do respect that.

 

[nandixon]

Just wanted to make sure people saw this research on acai as an immunomodulator that Lnester7 posted on another thread:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046208/

 

[richvank]

Hi, nan.

Thanks for reposting this. There definitely seems to be more going on with acai than simply antioxidant support!

In the context of the good old GD-MCB hypothesis (am I like a dog with a bone, or what?) perhaps acai is also lowering inflammation, which would lower oxidative stress as well, and perhaps that effect is lifting a load off glutathione, in addition to the antioxidant effect. Sorry if I sound as though all roads lead to glutathione! In any case, acai sounds like good stuff!

Best regards,

Rich

 

[CAcfs]

Did I mention my recent TMG news above? I started a post on it in the B12/glutathione forum an hour or so ago. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/tmg-helping-a-lot-too.19546/

So yeah...on heels of acai realizations, I added TMG and wow! It is like Acai's effects, but even better (so same type of benefit, but amplified). The effects only last maybe 2 hours.

So, that considered, I'm wondering if all roads DO lead to glutathione. I think immune modulation is unlikely as the benefit of the Acai, because I see the results so quickly. But that is my logic only.

I think because the results happen so quickly (for both TMG and Acai), the most likely candidates are glutathione support, or somehow helping my bloodflow/dysautonomia.

The biggest shocker for me is that I thought that if B12 and active folate weren't doing "enough," I should give up on the glutathione/methylation "stuff." As a typical patient, I got lost in focusing on B's only, and didn't give much thought to these other supplements. That is why I'm reporting these successes to all. If you click on my TMG post, I talk about how B12 did help me somewhat, but not as much as Acai and TMG. And in terms of folate, I don't notice really anything from that alone (perhaps only in combo with NAC, but then it could just be the NAC alone!).

I am wondering if in the long run, some of these non-B supplements may prove more important to me. That is the hunch I'm getting right now. I am still taking my B12 sublinguals a few times a week, but the more I take TMG and Acai, the more it makes B12 look like a second-rate supplement. I don't mean that with any disrespect to the bigger picture or the research out there, just telling it like it is, from someone who is desperate for anything that helps and takes supps based on net effect. I am out of my Perque sublingual though. If I had that, I'd try to take it daily. Ordering it soon. Right now all I have are Adeno Dibencozide and methyl. I have laid off my active folate, because I am not sure if it helps, but I may restart.

 

[Seven7]

I have learned from my unbalanced inmune system tests what will help and what will hurt. We all have different unbalances so what might be good for one, might not be good for the other.
Before the Dr told me what was Off, I had noticed by the things I eat or drink.
Before she even put me on an inmune modulator, I knew I did bad on Boosters (after trying proboost and some others). So when things go bad, Look for the immunology of what your taking (type the name of the food/drink/supplement and T cell or Bcell or IL- or TNFR with it.) and keep a log, You will figure out what hurts and what doesn't if you do not have access to the tests.

Trust your body reactions !!!!

 

[nandixon]

I've tried acai off and on now for a couple weeks and I think its primary feel-good ability is as a stimulant. It does contain theobromine, like cacao/cocoa/chocolate, and it gives me a similar effect.

It certainly has other effects as well, though, and was found to be a particularly good antioxidant, in vitro, with respect to superoxide:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17061840/

So it might be a good alternative to caffeine or chocolate for some people. I probably won't continue using it myself.

 

[SickOfSickness]

I got some Now brand and took my first capsule today and thought it make a positive difference for at least 6-8 hours. Two capsules might do more. I am wondering if I can tolerate 2 at once. I might have a negative mood side effect when it started wearing off, or maybe it was coincidence. I'm not sure how much of the positive and negative was due to Acai. I will report back when I try it more.

 

[tandrsc]

Maybe someone could set up a poll so we can see how those who have ME/CFS tend to do taking these acai pills, I'd be interested in seeing what percent of us find them helpful.

I've added Acai to my supplement poll if anyone wants to vote for it there.

http://www.storiesoutloud.co.uk/supplements/pollresultsall.py?sort=name

 

[taniaaust1]

I've added Acai to my supplement poll if anyone wants to vote for it there.

http://www.storiesoutloud.co.uk/supplements/pollresultsall.py?sort=name

it would be great if a ton of people voted there.. so we can all see which supplements seem to be working the best for most.

 

[CAcfs]

I have not been on this site much lately at all, but I recently came across this article stating that Acai upregulated...or did something to.... two genes relating to glutathione in a mouse study (I think I paraphrased that properly). I was looking for a quote about Acai and cytokines, but I ended up finding this. READ THIS!!!!!! IT IS SHORT. Click link below, scroll down to the section in the middle labelled "Study Details"(it is a short paragraph, but I can't copy it here).

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Amazing-acai-alleviates-atherosclerosis-Study

This would explain possibly why Acai helps me in the same way TMG seems to help me, glutathione. I agree with Rich that all roads lead to glutathione. I think the main problem in my CFS is what Cheney says, "too high cytokines and lack of gluathione" (paraphrasing). What's interesting is that certain supps that should lower cytokines don't really produce energy in me, but then some really really do. Then some gluta precursors don't help as much as others. From what I read, there are different types of cytokines, and certain substances lower certain cytokines better? Acai does lower cytokines. And maybe with the gluta, there are just certain things that my genetic makeup needs more than others. Either way, I am becoming a believer that CFS actually is curable.

 

[Lotus97]

Hi, CAcfs.

I appreciate your detailed descriptions of what Acai does for you, and your comparisons to the responses you experience from B12 and TMG.

I continue to suspect that what Acai is doing for you is to give you a temporary boost in your glutathione level, especially in your skeletal muscles. That would make sense, since Acai is known to be a powerful antioxidant.

For a more permanent raising of glutathione, the only thing I have found is to lift the partial methylation cycle block, and the best way to do that is with a methylation protocol, which includes at a minimum a relatively high dosage of B12, by injection or sublingually, together with supplementing an active form of folate (methylfolate or folinic acid, with methylfolate being more effective).

If a person gets B12 alone, I think that they get the benefit of improving the function of the methylmalonate pathway, which feeds more fuel to the mitochondria, producing more ATP and hence more energy to drive the muscles. However, without adding the folate to it, the person does not lift the partial methylation cycle block and does not get the permanent improvement in glutathione level, which gives the longterm improvement in mito function and thus in ATP production and energy.

TMG feeds the alternative BHMT pathway for methylation in the liver and kidneys, and that can give temporary benefit, too, but it does not lift the partial block in methionine synthase, which is the main methylation pathway.

So I think that all the things you report are consistent with the GD-MCB hypothesis, and that methylation treatment would give you a longer lasting version of what you are getting from the Acai.

Another thing that strikes me is that perhaps taking Acai with a methylation protocol would prevent the initial glutathione drop that I believe produces the excitotoxicity that many people report on methylation treatment.

Best regards,

Rich

What does Rich mean when he says that methylation offers a more permanent method of raising Glutathione? What happens if we stop taking active B12 and Folate?

 

[Sushi]

What does Rich mean when he says that methylation offers a more permanent method of raising Glutathione? What happens if we stop taking active B12 and Folate?

If you can restore methylation through the protocol, (which means your glutathione will return to normal levels), methylation should continue to function normally even after you stop the supplements. However, if we have continued drains on glutathione, (like perhaps from other aspects of this illness), we may not be able to keep glutathione levels up. Or, if there are again more sudden drains from some type of trauma, stress or illness, a partial methylation block could happen again.

At least that is what I understand about it!

Sushi

 

[Lotus97]

I was reading that it might be something about the polyphenols in Acai which are responsible for it's benefits.
http://www.ab-solutely-fit.com/acai-berry-information.html

Polyphenols are powerful, plant-derived antioxidants that protect vital cellular components from the damaging effects of oxidative stress. Research suggests that consuming a diet high in polyphenols delivers hefty health benefits, and reduces the risk of chronic and degenerative diseases [7].
Prevalent in acai, polyphenols are also noted for their anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, anti-viral, anti-microbal, anti-clotting, and vasodilatory effects (relaxes the blood vessel walls) [7, 8, 9].
Polyphenols also protect and boost your immune function by neutralizing free radicals (the primary cause of immune dysfunction), and by protecting your lymphocytes. Lymphocytes are special cells (antibodies/ white blood cells) that fight infection by attacking bacteria, viruses and other substances that damage your body

Although it's unclear whether the polyphenolic compounds in Acai boost Glutathione, there have been studies on Olives which are also noted for their polyphenols and two studies in particular have shown that Olives/Olive Oil/Olive fruit extract actually do increase Glutathione levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19219997
Olive phenolics increase glutathione levels in healthy volunteers.
Another 5 mL of blood was drawn 1 h after ingestion of the preparation. Plasma antioxidant capacity and total and reduced glutathione were measured. No difference in plasma antioxidant capacity was observed between baseline and 1 h after the ingestion of the extract. Conversely, a significant increase in total plasma glutathione concentration was measured. This increase involved both the reduced and oxidized forms of glutathione; hence, their ratio was unaffected by the treatment. The observed effects of OMWW on glutathione levels might be governed by the antioxidant response element (ARE)-mediated increase in phase II enzyme expression, including that of gamma-glutamylcysteine ligase and glutathione synthetase.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12498302
Extra-virgin olive oil-enriched diets reduce indomethacin-induced gastric oxidative damage in rats.
First-pressed, extra-virgin olive oil (EVOO) has appreciable amounts of powerful antioxidants such as polyphenolic compounds that prevent its autoxidation and are responsible for its high stability...dietary supplementation with EVOO significantly increased both glutathione peroxidase activity and total glutathione content. In conclusion, this study provides evidence that fat diets containing EVOO reduces indomethacin-induced gastric damage in rats. This effect may be partly due not only to reducing oxidative stress and neutrophil-induced toxicity but also to enhancing the glutathione antioxidant defense system.

 

[Tally]

I've taken them and they didn't help at all.

Also, from Wikipedia:

"A comparative analysis from in vitro studies reported that açaí has intermediate polyphenol content and antioxidant potency among 11 varieties of frozen juice pulps, scoring lower than acerola, mango, strawberry, and grapes."

"Advertisements of açaí berry supplements have been referred to as scams, both for their deceptive offers as well as for a lack of efficacy. A Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre spokesman described the growing number of scams related to the sale of açaí berry supplements as "a major international problem."

"Common in the affiliate marketing of açaí berry supplements is the use of fake blogs, describing fictional testimonials of users of the product."

"When the entire scientific literature to date and putative health claims of açaí are assessed, experts concluded in 2011 that the fruit is more a phenomenon of Internet marketing than of scientific substance."

I'm not saying you shouldn't take them, just be skeptical.

 

[Lotus97]

I've taken them and they didn't help at all.

Also, from Wikipedia:

"A comparative analysis from in vitro studies reported that açaí has intermediate polyphenol content and antioxidant potency among 11 varieties of frozen juice pulps, scoring lower than acerola, mango, strawberry, and grapes."

"Advertisements of açaí berry supplements have been referred to as scams, both for their deceptive offers as well as for a lack of efficacy. A Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre spokesman described the growing number of scams related to the sale of açaí berry supplements as "a major international problem."

"Common in the affiliate marketing of açaí berry supplements is the use of fake blogs, describing fictional testimonials of users of the product."

"When the entire scientific literature to date and putative health claims of açaí are assessed, experts concluded in 2011 that the fruit is more a phenomenon of Internet marketing than of scientific substance."

I'm not saying you shouldn't take them, just be skeptical.

What about acai's ORAC score? I guess I haven't really done much research, but Acai does have a really high ORAC score. The score is based on 100 grams fresh berries. Although the 100 gram equivalent of dried Acai powder would weigh a lot less than 100 grams, a few capsules isn't going to cut it which is why I buy it in powder form. That said, I don't know how reliable ORAC is to begin with. I'm trying to limit my sugar consumption and Acai powder is very low sugar so I really hope that at least the part about it's ORAC score is true.

 

[Seven7]

Funny thing. I bought acai as pure liquid and I did not do as well as I did on the tea that contains acai (Goyi berry detox tee).

Will stick to the tea.

 

[Lotus97]

Just speculating on why it backfired. I think it increases NO, which can get converted to peroxynitrite. If too much NO was signaled, seems possible too much peroxynitrite might have been produced or some redox balance disrupted. Whatever the case, had a really nasty effect on me.

How do we know if we're getting too much or too little NO (Nitric oxide). I also heard someone speaking about NO synthase and how it's good up to a certain point. Is that the same thing?

 

[Seven7]

i Don't know if it is NO but when I am doing too much of anything, I feel flueish or more pain.