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I'm currently only taking b12 but I will be getting some methylfolate soon.
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Joe -- exactly two years ago, I had similar issues, perhaps even worse, documented on this board. My doc didn't really know what she was doing, and prescribed, or overprescribed an assortment of methylation supplements, including a couple different forms of b12, and several different types of folate.
Within a few weeks, my anxiety went sky-high, I was agitated, couldn't sleep, was exhausted, yet couldn't sit still -- I thought for sure I wouldn't make it. I backed off on the supps, and eventually stopped them for a few months. Later on in 2011, I tried various combinations of methyl-b12 (this time injections) and some occasional methylfolate. Anxiety, restlessness, extreme fatigue was 'better' at times, but not consistently. I eventually stopped the b12 shots, and switched over to hydroxoycobalmin sublinguals, which seemed to help a bit.
Cut to about 3 months ago. I started taking TMG (trimethylglycine) and folinic acid (which is another form of folate that's a precursor to methylfolate), and my anxiety/restlessness/agitation decreased significantly, and my sleep got better as well. In the last month or so I've increased my vitamin D to 5,000ius -- taken in the morning -- and my sleep has improved even more.
(Vitamin D -- or sunshine -- in the morning is said to help increase melatonin production at night).
I take some methyl-b12 every other day or so, and some methylfolate -- both small amounts, but for me, perhaps my genetics(?), the TMG (which is a methyl donor) and the folinic acid, were the best choices, methylation-wise.
Not sure if it would help you, but just throwin' it out there.
Interesting, Dan. Glad you feel better.
The SLEEP part of the equation sounds good to me. I already take 3000 ius of D, but have never tried folinic acid. What brand do you take and how much? And how did you figure this out? Did you do the 23 and ME test? Or was it just all the trial and error?
Hi DB,
I had the yasko testing a year or so ago...I had/have about 12 different polymorphisms, which came a long with a LONG list of supplements, etc., that were suggested for treatment. Couldn't afford that, nor did I want to add another 20 or so supps to my already overstuffed cupboard.
I couldn't figure it out, although I was fortunate to get an analysis of the genetics done by an RN for no charge. Still, since there is considerably controversy regarding the so-called "CBS upregulation" (and it's connection to the transsulfuration pathway), where one is supposed to limit sulfur foods, proteins, and sulfur-based supplements, it was a challenge trying to figure it out. It wasn't until Anne Likes Red talked about how even though she had the CBS issue, she found that sulfur wasn't a problem in the long run (I think she needed molybdenum to help deal with it?).
Also I re-read the study by Jill James where kids with autism improved -- their glutathione levels, etc., normalized -- using TMG and folinic -- plus their CBS issues were also 'decreased' -- without any mention of sulfur issues. The other thing found in these patients were high levels of s-adenosylhomocysteine (SAH), which I also had on my methylation panel...no one seemed to know how to lower that. I almost by accident found a mention of TMG being the only compound that lowers 'SAH' on Dr. Ben Lynch's MTHFR blog...which reminded me of the James study, which confirmed that it worked. Quoting:
"...the intervention with betaine and folinic acid was successful in bringing all the metabolites within the methionine cycle into the normal range and simultaneously improving significantly the metabolites in the transsulfuration pathway."
So I'm guessing that I needed the TMG for the methyl donors (to help lower the SAH), and the folinic perhaps was tolerated better because it requires a step (or 2?) before it's converted to methylfolate.
Methyl-b12 was added 2 or 3 months into the study, and that helped too, but improvements were seen before that, which suggests perhaps that (at least in this study) some may not need b12, and/or the order of supplementation may have helped with tolerating the methylb12.
Here's the study:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/6/1611.full
Re: Vitamin D: I was taking 1000-2000ius off and on until I read this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12499343
...which concluded that "
Healthy men seem to use 3000-5000 IU cholecalciferol/d, apparently meeting > 80% of their winter cholecalciferol need with cutaneously synthesized accumulations from solar sources during the preceding summer months. Current recommended vitamin D inputs are inadequate to maintain serum 25-hydroxycholecalciferol concentration in the absence of substantial cutaneous production of vitamin D."
Excellent points DbKita -- thanks for your insights and further explanation re TMG's association with the BHMT pathway.
Great example(s) of why what may work for one person, may not work, or even be harmful for someone else. I obviously need more methyl donors (always did better in the past when I was taking SAMe for example), but cannot tolerate any niacin or niacinamide, apparently because it 'mops up' methyl donors (and I guess vitamin C -- more than 500mgs/day interferes with methylb12). Perhaps I'll be able to tolerate niacin/amide (and also b6/p5p) in the future when methylation is working better.
Good luck witih your 23&me testing DB -- hope you can get some help deciphering it all. It's all so complex.
Good luck to you too. (Yes, CBS is an issue for me...that's what drew me to that study I posted earlier, with TMG and folinic.)
USP-grade folinic acid was obtained from Douglas Laboratories (Pittsburgh) or Thorne Research, Inc (Dover, ID) and was given twice a day as 800 μg oral powder in juice. Betaine (trimethylglycine, USP grade) was purchased from Life Extension Foundation (Fort Lauderdale, FL) and given twice a day as 1000 μg oral powder in juice. USP methylcobalamin was obtained from Hopewell Pharmaceuticals (Hopewell, NJ) or Unique Pharmaceuticals (Temple, TX) as an injectible liquid and given subcutaneously at a dose of 75 μg/kg twice a week.
Why not just try a lower dose, say 250mg? 750mg is quite a lot. Are you taking other methyl donors?Hi dbkita--SO I gave it a go with the TMG--750 mg/day for just 2 days. IT made me feel so much more mentally clear, helped my mood, and my energy. The first night it seemed like my sleep was a little better, but last night I felt a bit revved up. I was hoping it would be beneficial for my sleep, but it doesn't look like it's a good option, at least not for now.
I will have to wait to see my 23&ME results in 2 weeks. Darn. Until then my brain will be its usual wired tired self.