Cocaine

[Undisclosed]

Wow, Kina - how did you find this?

I have know this for what seems like forever. Our daughter, who we adopted at age 2, has been horribly damaged by both the alcohol her biological mother drank and the cocaine she shot into her arm on a regular basis during her pregnancy. The cooking egg in alcohol is a good visual reminder of what alcohol can do, especially to an unborn child.

 

[Nielk]

I have know this for what seems like forever. Our daughter, who we adopted at age 2, has been horribly damaged by both the alcohol her biological mother drank and the cocaine she shot into her arm on a regular basis during her pregnancy. The cooking egg in alcohol is a good visual reminder of what alcohol can do, especially to an unborn child.

It's amazing - I have never seen this. Visuals are always very effective.

 

[Dainty]

The cooking egg in alcohol is a good visual reminder of what alcohol can do, especially to an unborn child.

I'm concerned the egg visuals may lead to a gap in reasoning.

I used to read old historical books - not books on history, but homestead and recipe books written back in the late 1800's or early 1900's. One think I noticed was that vinegar was considered terribly unhealthy. Condiments containing vinegar were somewhat of a guilty pleasure, adults permitting themselves consumption in moderation and it was said children should never, under any circumstances, be allowed anything contianing vinegar.

Surprised by this, I did some research. If membory serves, I traced it back to a physician who was known for holding public demonstrations where he placed an egg in vinegar and everyone observed the effects. He then asserted that this is what vinegar does to your body.

Of course, we now know that isn't true, but it took several decades before the public opinion on vinegar turned around. Nowadays you'd never guess that vinegar was once thought to be unhealthy, in fact it's promoted as extremely healthful.

I used to regularly babysit a child with fetal alcohol syndrome, and it is truly horrible. However, studies show that only very excessive drinking by alcoholics results in FAS - drinking in moderation, even daily, does not. This page has a good overview of the findings of multiple studies on the subject.

Getting back to the subject of cocaine, I found this article particularly fascinating regarding the history of its use in soda, specifically Coke:

The new soft drink was one of many concoctions in that era containing cocaine, which was being touted as a benign substitute for alcohol. Coke, in fact, was promoted as a patent medicine, which would "cure all nervous afflictions — Sick Headache, Neuralgia, Hysteria, Melancholy, Etc. …" ​

​

...In the 1890s, however, public sentiment began to turn against cocaine, which among other things was believed to be a cause of racial violence by drug-crazed blacks. In 1903 the New York Tribune published an article linking cocaine with black crime and calling for legal action against Coca-Cola. Shortly thereafter Coke quietly switched from fresh to "spent" coca leaves (i.e., what's left over after the cocaine has been removed). It also stopped advertising Coke as a cure for what ails you and instead promoted it simply as a refreshing beverage.​

History in a nutshell.

 

[Undisclosed]

Dainty --

I used to regularly babysit a child with fetal alcohol syndrome, and it is truly horrible. However, studies show that only very excessive drinking by alcoholics results in FAS - drinking in moderation does not. This page has a good overview of the findings of multiple studies on the subject.

This statement is not true. FASD (the correct term) is not just a disorder that is caused by excessive drinking by alcoholics -- it can also be caused by binge drinking and also there are different times during the pregnancy where any amount of alcohol should be avoided. The page you linked to actually contains a bit of incorrect information. FASD is a spectrum disorder -- those who are the most affected -- physical signs, intellectual disability, parts of their brains missing are the product of heavy drinkers, those at the other end of the spectrum -- not so much.

 

[Dainty]

Dainty --
This statement is not true. FASD (the correct term) is not just a disorder that is caused by excessive drinking by alcoholics -- it can also be caused by binge drinking and also there are different times during the pregnancy where any amount of alcohol should be avoided. The page you linked to actually contains a bit of incorrect information. FASD is a spectrum disorder -- those who are the most affected -- physical signs, intellectual disability, parts of their brains missing are the product of heavy drinkers, those at the other end of the spectrum -- not so much.

Did you take the time to read the page and the studies quoted?

There is even evidence that light drinking during pregnancy may be beneficial to children. A study of 12,495 three-year-old children found that those born to mothers who drank light amounts of alcohol (beer, wine or spirits) during pregnancy had fewer conduct, emotional and peer problems than did those born to abstaining mothers or those who drank heavily while pregnant....​

​

Boys born to light drinkers had 40% fewer conduct problems, were 30% less likely to suffer hyperactivity, and received higher scores on tests of vocabulary and of ability to identify colors, shapes, letters and numbers than did those born to abstainers.​

​

Girls born to light drinkers were 30 percent less likely to have emotional symptoms and peer problems compared with those born to abstainers during pregnancy.​

...Lead researcher Dr. Yvonne Kelly said the study raises questions as to "whether the current push for policy to recommend complete abstinence during pregnancy is merited." 16​

And

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A study of pregnancies in eight European countries found that consuming no more than one drink per day did not appear to have any effect on fetal growth. A follow-up of children at 18 months of age found that those from women who drank during pregnancy, even two drinks per day, scored higher in several areas of development.​

I'd quote more but I wouldn't want to violate copyright fair use.

 

[Undisclosed]

Did you take the time to read the page and the studies quoted?

There is even evidence that light drinking during pregnancy may be beneficial to children. A study of 12,495 three-year-old children found that those born to mothers who drank light amounts of alcohol (beer, wine or spirits) during pregnancy had fewer conduct, emotional and peer problems than did those born to abstaining mothers or those who drank heavily while pregnant....​

​

Boys born to light drinkers had 40% fewer conduct problems, were 30% less likely to suffer hyperactivity, and received higher scores on tests of vocabulary and of ability to identify colors, shapes, letters and numbers than did those born to abstainers.​

​

Girls born to light drinkers were 30 percent less likely to have emotional symptoms and peer problems compared with those born to abstainers during pregnancy.​

...Lead researcher Dr. Yvonne Kelly said the study raises questions as to "whether the current push for policy to recommend complete abstinence during pregnancy is merited." 16​

And

​

A study of pregnancies in eight European countries found that consuming no more than one drink per day did not appear to have any effect on fetal growth. A follow-up of children at 18 months of age found that those from women who drank during pregnancy, even two drinks per day, scored higher in several areas of development.​

I'd quote more but I wouldn't want to violate copyright fair use.

Dainty. I am sorry but I have been dealing with FASD for the last 19 years of my life. I have read books, I have read the reasearch (most of it bad and poorly done), I have met many many many people born with various degrees of FASD, I have spoken to both the biological parents and adoptive parents of these children, I have educated hundreds of people about FASD. I am not going to get into a long drawn out conversation of why the research you posted is wrong, incomplete, and abhorrent to anybody who has a child affected by the consumption of alcohol during pregnancy. You know how members here get upset when people try to claim ME is purely a psychological disorder and produce bad psychological research to try to prove their point. If you went to a forum that is for FASD, if you posted your comments and research, you would likely get the same reception as the psychobabblers get here. I have yet to meet any parent or person with FASD that can identify one benefit of drinking during pregnancy and we all know that even light drinking in the right circumstances (nobody knows what the right circumstances are though) can produce a child on the spectrum.

I posted to Nielk how I came across the egg in alcohol video and said how I came to know about it. The egg in alcohol is a good visual to show how alcohol cooks eggs (imagine the effect on brain cells and we know alcohol kills brain cells). My life has been virtually consumed and still is consumed and will forever be consumed by issues related to my daughter's disability. Phoenix Rising is one of my places to get away from FASD. Just like when I go to the FASD forums, I don't even mention ME/CFS because Phoenix Rising is my place for that. So, in short, I won't be discussing this any further here.

Kina.

 

[Dainty]

Understood.

Just to clarify - because it appears that I need to - I never never once indicated that FASD was a psychological disorder, nor would I even begin to dream of doing so. I have seen first hand its damaging effects and am not disputing that here.

I'm simply letting people know that there is a body of evidence, as well as more than one country's medical guidelines, that indicates light to moderate consumption of alcohol does not result in FASD. I'm eager to continue to read any evidence presented on the subject for either side of the story.

I suspect drugs and alcohol will always have studies showing beneficial and harmful effects. They're powerful substances, and the debates on them will probably never fully be settled.

 

[svetoslav80]

If you're going to buy cocaine from the local dealer there's a danger that they give you amphetamines instead (they have similar effect but are much cheaper). So be careful.

 

[arx]

I have not tried any of these drugs,but I've read here and there about them..

Cocaine and amphetamines are CNS stimulants. The stimulation can also lead to rage and paranoia. So..do not become Charlie Sheen if you're trying it out.

I've always wondered if LSD can be beneficial or not. It has been used for psychotherapy before. If used in the right 'ambience', it can very well provide some peace of mind and a rest from suffering.The 'spiritual' people have also experienced benefit. I don't know if this is true, but reading it many times here and there has made me wondered about it..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Potential_uses

All these drugs can induce psychosis also..so I guess a right state of mind is needed to experiment with all this.

Another thing, see this(Image taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse):

See where our very 'loved' Benzodiazepines are and where LSD and Cannabis is!

 

[Captain John]

Does anyone have the link to the guy in Europe (I cant remember if he was english or scando?) who claimd to have cured his CFS with cocaine? Ive been telling a few people about it and I had his email at one stage but Ive lost it. Now ive lost the email and Im wondering whether hs website was pulled for being pro-drug?

I am new in this forum and I specifikly joined to because of this thread. I was wondering if you looked more into the effects that cocain has on ME/CFS. I have ME and I have research the field and I have come across stories of cocain curing CFS. So I would really like your thoughts on this. Sorry for my bad english, I am from Denmark

 

[Captain John]

Hello,

So has someone here with CFS actually tried cocaine?
No one? So why do you keep talking?
I have CFS, I'm gonna give it a try to see what it does to me.
I used to take cocaine many many years ago and then I stopped.
I'll let you know.

Hi Jeffy, I am from denmark and I have CFS/ME. I would really like to hear if you tried cocain and how it worked. Hope your still online

 

[Gandalf]

Hi Jeffy, I am from denmark and I have CFS/ME. I would really like to hear if you tried cocain and how it worked. Hope your still online

For some CFS patients, Stimulants seem to work - others may feel extremely horrible. For me personally, Stimulants have a very positive effect and seem to work best at very low doses.
I have tried C twice (recreationally) - I felt amazing and also had no negative effects the next day. However, C is NOT and will never be an effective treatment for CFS since the half-life of 1h is WAY too low and also the tolerance build up is too strong. If you do seek treatment with a stimulant, then MPH or Amphetamine are better candidates.
But go very low on the dose... otherwise you will regret it in the long run - I guarantee it.