Insomnia Rant Part Two/Phosphatidylserine

[xks201]

ya prob the best time is night

 

[heapsreal]

Hi, PS still working although sleep isnt as long as it was but much better then before. tonight i slept from 10pm till 4 am, i used zolpidem and an antihistamine and i think the PS is greatly improving sleep quality for the sleep im getting. It was six hours of deep sleep. I hope it continues to work. I think its all about trying to modulate the HPA axis so its working in a normal rythm. I was going to order some withania in mylast order but forgot, i think it would have gone well with PS to help control cortisol.

cheers!!!

 

[August59]

I'm on replacement HC so I was curious if maybe I could use less HC with it.

Have you had a 24 hour cortisol test perfomed. You really need one done because without knowing what you pattern is your sort of just shoot in the dark. Doctor Data has a good ASI - Adrenal Stress Index and the Canary Club has the lowest price on a quality test. My 24 hour cortisol is almost the exact oppositte from what it suppose to be. And I had bee trying to treat one way and I wasn't doing anything buy promoting it in it's current state.

 

[maddietod]

Heaps, have you played with the timing of taking the PS? Meaning, how early do you take it to get to sleep at a good time and hopefully reduce morning effects?

 

[heapsreal]

Heaps, have you played with the timing of taking the PS? Meaning, how early do you take it to get to sleep at a good time and hopefully reduce morning effects?

I have used to dosings, 250mg and 500mg. 250mg works well but sleeping 6 hrs with it but sleep quality is definately better, 500mg i sleep longer and abit of a hangover but it passes after an hour, but will avoid that when i have to function early the nextday. I have taken it a few hours before sleep as well as an hour before sleep, i prefer an hour before sleep especially with 250mg as it helps lengthen my sleep abit more. Im still using sleep meds though. Its conitinues to work quite well so at this stage i dont think there is a need to use it intermittently but if it stops working well down the track i will take a break from it then.

cheers!!!

 

[maddietod]

Have you ever done a saliva cortisol test? Mine is lowest-normal 6am, and highest-normal 10pm. Backwards, but not off the charts. I assume it goes higher, though, since I wake up 4 times a night. I'm wondering if you have results I can compare with.

 

[heapsreal]

Its been about 2 weeks now using PS. Still using a low dose benzo and an antihistamine for sleep but the addition of phosphatidylserine 500mg is still working with improving my sleep quality. Not waking up several times through the night etc and if i do, i roll back over and go back to sleep, prior to this if i woke up that was it i was awake for the rest of the night.

Im going to look at halving my benzo dose and im going to add tryptophan which i have used in the past and take 3000mg. Im going to keep using an antihistamine at this stage. Obviously down regulating cortisol with PS seems to be the key for me and tryptophan will help with melatonin production but also serotonin which also helps down regulate many of the excitory neurotransmitters.

I hope im onto something here. Regenerative sleep is so important. i love a good nights sleep.

 

[john66]

I use a product called seriphos, which my dr claimed would reduce cortisol. I am so glad this is doing something positive for you.

 

[heapsreal]

I use a product called seriphos, which my dr claimed would reduce cortisol. I am so glad this is doing something positive for you.

seriphos looks like a good product but doesnt have a higher enough amount of phos serine that im looking for that i can tell. economically i have found the multi ingredient products work out more expensive then if u buy them all seperately.
seriphos product from iherb is a property blend Phosphorylated Serine/Ethanolamine. just looked up ethanolamine has antihistamine properties. Will look into ethanolamine abit more, spark some interest in me.

I buy bulk powder phos serine and cap them myself which helps reduce the cost.

cheers!!

 

[heapsreal]

last 2 nights i have only been taking a half of an imovane or a zolpidem which normally would do anything to me but with PS and other supps i have been sleeping through well and quality of sleep seems good.

last night i took 1/2 imovane and 75mg diphenhydramine plus i always take gabapentine which generally does nothing for my sleep but does stop legs aching at night when sleeping, besides a reduction in imovane the above meds are typical of what i would normally take. Supplements i took for sleep are tryptophan 3000mg and 5mg melatonin sublingual plus my 500mg PS, also took a low dose of dhea 10mg to also help with night time cortisol. It took me abit longer to fall asleep but slept a solid 7 hours with out waking all the time etc This improved sleep is making a big difference for me.

I would like to get to the stage of not needing a benzo at all for sleep and maybe only use it 1-2 times a week and also cut the other meds out eventually. Im going to look at adding the herb withania to my sleep supps.

My sleep supps will look like this:
PS 500mg
tryptophan 3000mg
melatonin sublingual 5mg
dhea 10mg, i do take 25mg dose in the moring.
withania 900mg

All this is aimed at lowering night time cortisol and increasing serotonin and melatonin to turn the OFF button OFF.

 

[ukxmrv]

This is great news Heaps. I'm hoping that this will continue over time. With ME and CFS sometimes we find things that seem to work or at least help and then a month or so later they stop working mysteriously. It's like the disease manages to work out a way around things sometimes. Then again there are breakthrough moments when a fix is found for a problem.

What's your fuctioning like during the day now on this combo?

 

[heapsreal]

This is great news Heaps. I'm hoping that this will continue over time. With ME and CFS sometimes we find things that seem to work or at least help and then a month or so later they stop working mysteriously. It's like the disease manages to work out a way around things sometimes. Then again there are breakthrough moments when a fix is found for a problem.

What's your fuctioning like during the day now on this combo?

Yes always cautious of things will stop working but i think its more that i have found that my issues are night time cortisol, i hope??
Functioning during the day has been good the last week, not waking up with any real hangover which may happen i suppose if one lowers cortisol too much but i have been using pregnenolone cream in the morning which helps boost cortisol levels. I suppose im just manually taking control of my cortisol rythm. Its also the combo of everything to i think with antivirals, adrenal hormones and cortisol rythm as well as antioxidants. i have had this week off work and got next week too which helps. its a big jigsaw puzzle and every so often someone hides a piece on ya, i feel like im getting there slowly, 2 steps forward and one step back.
Im scared as hell when the time comes when i finish the valcyte, i really hope i can maintain my improvement.

cheers!!!

 

[heapsreal]

I have just put an order in for some more supps to add to my sleep regime. As i have been ranting about it abit, Phos serine is still working well and will keep it going at 500mg a night.

I think the PS is lowering cortisol enough that now melatonin is starting to help me with sleep initiation. Sleep initiation i think i can improve more which is what im looking into and want to drop benzos altogether if i can, i have already reduced my sleep meds to half a tablet which i currently need to fall asleep.

So im using PS,melatonin 5mg sublingual and 3000mg of tryptophan, trypto helps and also good for mood the next day. Undcrv has given me a tip on improving trypto ie adding p5p which is a more active form of vit b6 and it helps trypto convert to serotonin and melatonin more efficiently. So im going to add 50mg of p5p at night. I have used 5htp in the past but it just doesnt seem as effective for sleep as trypto is for me which is why im going with trypto then 5htp.

Im also going to add the herb withania/ashwaganda at night as its said to help with adrenal fatigue and can help lower high cortisol levels as well. I have used this in the past and had some help with it, so im hoping the combo, the sum is greater then its parts.

So the addition of withania and p5p i will see how it goes for a few nights and see if it helps improve sleep initiation without sleep meds. If after a few nights it seems not to be enough im going to add the amino acid taurine. Now taurine is said to work as a gaba agonist which is how benzo's work. I think of taurine is to gaba receptors like tryptophan is to serotonin, i hope. Im not going down the amino acid gaba line as i have read that it doesnt cross the blood brain barrier and although it seems to help others, when i have tried it, it didnt seem to do anything for me. Also i havent used taurine before, so its a new experiment.

Currently it looks like this-
PS 500mg
Trypto 3000mg
Melatonin 5mg

Will add this-
withania 900mg
p5p 50mg
taurine 1000mg will add if sleep initiation is still not adequate enough.

One other thing i have ordered that im going to try is dopa macuna which is a herb that can increase dopamine. I will look at taking this in the morning to help energy and avoid it at night to avoid too much stimulation. Also my plan with this is to help night time leg pains which possibly could be similar to restless leg syndrome which is helped by increasing dopamine. If this works then i can drop gabapentine which i currently use for this.

Maybe just maybe if this works well and i have been on these things for several months, it might be enough to have regulated my crappy sleep cycle and i will look at slowly tapering off some of these things, but if i cant and have to stay on these things then thats ok, it will be a bonus to not be reliant on meds. Thats the plan anyway, we will see if it works. hopefully get these other supps within the next week. By the way most of these supps are quite cheap and easily affordable.

cheers!!

 

[maddietod]

How's your sleep holding up now that you're back at work?

 

[heapsreal]

How's your sleep holding up now that you're back at work?

Still going well madie, if i do get up in the early hours for a pitstop, i can go back to sleep where once before that would be me awake for the rest of the day until bedtime the next night. Even my wife has mentioned that im not waking up as much. Im still waiting for my withania and p5p from vitacost as well as more tryptophan, postage seems alot slower then iherb??
Have u tried the valium for sleep yet and has it helped? saw u getting atarax, i use anywhere from 25mg-75mg which helps me with sleep.

cheers!!

 

[maddietod]

My dose of valium for muscle spasms is 5mg. I took that last night, and still woke up 4 times, but I slept for 4 hours straight!! Miraculous!!

I'm so glad your regimen is still working for you. Yippee!!! And it sounds like your wife is sleeping better too.........great side benefit.

 

[heapsreal]

i have been using active b6 which is p5p and this is suppose to help make serotonin as well as gaba?? with this i have been using withania as well as the above supps phos serine and tryptophan,melatonin. When i get too sleep, i sleep fine and i think the above supps help this but having problems actually falling asleep but its not too bad. I was using antihistamines with 1/2 zolpidem or zopiclone, the antihistamine is to help keep me asleep but i have dropped this of late as i think the supps have been helping me with this, but have increased my z-drugs to a whole pill again which helps me to fall asleep better.

I used withania and p5p at seperate times on there own and i think they help some but i think withania is better for sleep. I dont think these supps would help me as much own there own but together they seem to be helping. So sleep quality seems to have improved but still having some problems with sleep initiation.

I also tried the amino acid taurine which is suppose to help u make more gaba and this crosses the BBB easier. I used 5 grams and didnt notice anything from it. I will keep using it until the bottle runs out but i dont think i will reorder it.

cheers!!

 

[heapsreal]

crossing my fingers as i write this, im still sleeping through the night well and still on reduce sleep meds 1/2-1 zolpidem at night. Im mostly putting this down to phosphatidylserine, the other natural stuff im using is helping too, i do like the active b6, tryptophan and withania. its abit scary looking to see what i take before bed, about 14 capsule of natural products but it is helping me sleep better.

the PS dose i take is about 400mg, last night i tried 800mg to see if it made any difference and it didnt increase the effects that i was aware of other then going through my supply twice as fast.

My general health has improved alot being on the valcyte which could also be helping with sleep but there was a definate improvement when i started the PS. Im glad i found it.

 

[maddietod]

Heaps, you've persuaded me once again! I've just ordered pure PS; should have it Thursday.

 

[heapsreal]

Heaps, you've persuaded me once again! I've just ordered pure PS; should have it Thursday.

cool, i hope it helps this time, maybe even start on 1/2 a capsule.
For interest sake this is where i get my PS from then i cap them myself http://nootropicnexus.com/collections/frontpage/products/phosphatidylserine i use an 'O' size cap which holds about 400mg of PS when packed tight into cap. I have a capping device which packs the contents in tight too, called a cap'm quick.

cheers!!