The Role of Cortisol in Sleep

[heapsreal]

Abstract
The hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis interacts with sleep in multiple ways. This article reviews the
effects of the HPA axis on sleep and the converse. The hormones secreted by the hypothalamus and anterior
pituitary that interact with the adrenal cortex are discussed, with implications on sleep disturbances and
insomnia. A review of the stages of sleep and sleep architecture is given, and particular attention is paid to
the role of cortisol. A dysfunctional HPA and alterations in the rhythm of cortisol production is described as a
basis for understanding many cases of insomnia. This abnormal cortisol production and cycling is the basis
for the hypothesis and the small body of research on the use of natural therapies to regulate the HPA axis and
cortisol production.

http://naturalmedicinejournal.net/pdf/NMJ_JUNE10_TC.pdf

 

[globalpilot]

This is timely because I"ve been waking up in the night at 2-3 and suspect cortisol maybe. I've just my saliva specimen in for the 24 analysis.

 

[Rand56]

Good find Heaps. I didn't know L-theanine supported NE production. I've taken tyrosine before. Anyone take theanine and have any positive responses to it? OK,,nevermind LOL. Should have read further before I posted. Reading on it says l-theanine helps to decrease NE in the brain and increases GABA. GABA makes my depression worse. Been there done that before.

If someone reading this whole pdf, is it just me or is the author being contradictory in 2 seperate areas when he talks about theanine?

 

[August59]

My last 24 hour cortisol haad my cortisol at it's lowest in the morning (8am) and it elevated to it's highest level by noon time and stayed flat all the way through midnight. It declines somewhere between 12am and 8 am which is ass backwards from what it should be doing. This would also explain my inability to go to sleep at 11pm and not fall asleep till 1am to 2am when cortisol starts to fall.

This will be the first thing I will work on as soon as I hopefully get my disability approval in 8 days. I'm planning on using a adrenal extract just in the mornings and take phosphytalserine(?) in the afternoon and at night or maybe take L-theanine in the afternoon instead.

I want to see if I can correct my cortisol curve.

I've taken L-theanine before with fairly good results. It has help both times that I stopped taking Klonopin.

 

[heapsreal]

My last 24 hour cortisol haad my cortisol at it's lowest in the morning (8am) and it elevated to it's highest level by noon time and stayed flat all the way through midnight. It declines somewhere between 12am and 8 am which is ass backwards from what it should be doing. This would also explain my inability to go to sleep at 11pm and not fall asleep till 1am to 2am when cortisol starts to fall.

This will be the first thing I will work on as soon as I hopefully get my disability approval in 8 days. I'm planning on using a adrenal extract just in the mornings and take phosphytalserine(?) in the afternoon and at night or maybe take L-theanine in the afternoon instead.

I want to see if I can correct my cortisol curve.

I've taken L-theanine before with fairly good results. It has help both times that I stopped taking Klonopin.

August59, phos serine is putting me out to sleep/improving sleep quality and length better then anything i have used so far. Im amazed! All i can say is night time cortisol must be a big issue with me. Dosage might be the key though as i have been taking 500mg. Im going to try this without using a benzo and see what happens.

 

[heapsreal]

Good find Heaps. I didn't know L-theanine supported NE production. I've taken tyrosine before. Anyone take theanine and have any positive responses to it? OK,,nevermind LOL. Should have read further before I posted. Reading on it says l-theanine helps to decrease NE in the brain and increases GABA. GABA makes my depression worse. Been there done that before.

If someone reading this whole pdf, is it just me or is the author being contradictory in 2 seperate areas when he talks about theanine?

acetyl tyrosine i have found much better then normal tyrosine, its supposedly absorbed alot better.

cheers!!!

 

[Rand56]

acetyl tyrosine i have found much better then normal tyrosine, its supposedly absorbed alot better.

cheers!!!

I have tried both of those before. Unfortunately, my system just needs stronger stuff for effect. Initially, years ago DLPA helped me better than tyrosine. After different trials with it again years later when I thought it could help me again, it just didn't have the same effect with me.

 

[August59]

August59, phos serine is putting me out to sleep/improving sleep quality and length better then anything i have used so far. Im amazed! All i can say is night time cortisol must be a big issue with me. Dosage might be the key though as i have been taking 500mg. Im going to try this without using a benzo and see what happens.

The low cortisol at bedtime with a steady increase until time to wake up I also believe is resonsible somehow for getting into deep sleep and also the release of growth hormone when you are in deep sleep.

Some people have told me to keep taking Xyrem because it releases growth hormone, but that is not the case from what I have read. It is the Xyrem getting me into deep sleep that releases the growth hormone, not the Xyrem. I can't believe this stuff used to be available at health food stores 15 years ago.

 

[heapsreal]

The low cortisol at bedtime with a steady increase until time to wake up I also believe is resonsible somehow for getting into deep sleep and also the release of growth hormone when you are in deep sleep.

Some people have told me to keep taking Xyrem because it releases growth hormone, but that is not the case from what I have read. It is the Xyrem getting me into deep sleep that releases the growth hormone, not the Xyrem. I can't believe this stuff used to be available at health food stores 15 years ago.

I agree with you, its the deep sleep that XYREM induces not the XYREM itself increases GH .
I think its a joke that xyrem is so expensive when it was like < $20 a bottle and it came in tablets not liquid. Also xyrem which is the same as the street drug GHB also costs next to nothing, quality control of pharmaceutical grade surely doesnt increase the cost that much.

Phos serine is definately helping. Im trying to find out how it actually works on lowering cortisol, does it work by blocking receptors or interrupt signalling of cortisol in the brain from the hypothalamus.

 

[heapsreal]

A cut and paste of an article on how phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol.

One of the best known and most effective ways to lower excess cortisol levels is with the nutrient Phosphatidylserine (PS). Phosphatidylserine is believed to facilitate the repair of the cortisol receptors in the hypothalamus. It is believed that the cortisol receptors get damaged by high cortisol levels reducing the ability of the hypothalamus to sense and correct high cortisone levels. Because Phosphatidylserine helps repair the feedback control apparatus, it is useful in correcting both high and low cortisol levels. Phosphatidylserine is also useful for preventing short-term memory loss, age-related dementia and Alzheimer's disease. Typical dosages are one to three 100 mg. capsules per day.
http://www.advance-health.com/cortisol.html

This was the sort of explanation i was looking for in how PS works. I will see if i can find more to back up this statement.

cheers!!!

 

[jimells]

Very interesting stuff on Phosphatidylserine, thanks heaps!

I've been studying Rich's simplified methylation protocol, the phos stuff is one of the supplements. The protocol also suggests it could lower cortisol, and that some folks might prefer lechithin instead.

August59 - Your disability hearing is in a few days? I finally have a hearing date -- in January! From what I understand, sometimes the Administrative Law Judges will announce a decision at the hearing (bench decision), but usually they issue a written decision, up to 60 days after the hearing

You did a 24 hour saliva cortisol test? Is available through the usual major labs? In other words, can I possibly get the PCP to order it, and have Medicaid pay for it? I've wondered about my cortisol for quite a while. Like you, I'm usually awake until after midnight, and when I get up initially about 8 AM I feel really awful, and vaguely resemble a human person around noon.

Best wishes for your hearing

 

[August59]

Very interesting stuff on Phosphatidylserine, thanks heaps!

I've been studying Rich's simplified methylation protocol, the phos stuff is one of the supplements. The protocol also suggests it could lower cortisol, and that some folks might prefer lechithin instead.

August59 - Your disability hearing is in a few days? I finally have a hearing date -- in January! From what I understand, sometimes the Administrative Law Judges will announce a decision at the hearing (bench decision), but usually they issue a written decision, up to 60 days after the hearing

You did a 24 hour saliva cortisol test? Is available through the usual major labs? In other words, can I possibly get the PCP to order it, and have Medicaid pay for it? I've wondered about my cortisol for quite a while. Like you, I'm usually awake until after midnight, and when I get up initially about 8 AM I feel really awful, and vaguely resemble a human person around noon.

Best wishes for your hearing

Yes it is hearing time, but my original attorney bailed out on me 3 weeks ago and it was hard finding another and I finally did their new girl messed everything up. She told me to bring all of the paperwork from the old attorney and from SSA to the meeting today. One of the pieces of paperwork was the acknowledgment of the hearing acceptance. I found out that it should have been sent back a month ago. So, now I have to try and get records from 4 doctors plus functionality forms from them for the lawyer and I know SSA is going to request them and I don't believe they will get them in time. I got my Senator involved and I applied for my hearing on July 16th, 2012 and it is next week Oct. 23rd, 2012, so I got it in 3 months

My integrative doctor ordered the ASI (Adrenal Stress Index) test for me from Doctors Data, which included the 24 hour 4 sample cortisol. It also looks at DHEA and 17 Oh Progesterone (or something like that) and DHEA and I did not have insurance at the time, but it is a reputable test. I have never heard of Medicaid or any insurance paying for a 24 hour, 4 sample cortisol saliva test. Mainstream medicine has not bought into that yet. I believe the "Canary Club" has very good pricing and here is their link and they are very reasonable.

http://www.canaryclub.org/home-test-kits/our-test-kits.html

Your sleep pattern sounds like mine and several others on here as well, but you should still do the test to find out where you may have some peaks and valleys that you want to manipulate with Adrenal Glandulars or Phosphytilserine

 

[Little Bluestem]

Like you, I'm usually awake until after midnight, and when I get up initially about 8 AM I feel really awful, and vaguely resemble a human person around noon.

Could part of the problem be that you are just not getting enough sleep? Do you have to get up at 8 AM?

 

[jimells]

Could part of the problem be that you are just not getting enough sleep? Do you have to get up at 8 AM?

I'd sleep longer if I could, but when I wake up around that time, I can't go back to sleep. So I get up, take a florinef, uncover the birds, lay down for another hour and listen to the radio, and then try again to get up for a short time.

Hi August,

I applied for my hearing on July 16th, 2012 and it is next week Oct. 23rd, 2012, so I got it in 3 months

Not that I'm an expert or anything, but I never heard of anyone getting a hearing that quick. Good for you. Give 'em Hell next week.

 

[Mattman1]

Like you Jim, I have very similar sleep patterns. Can't get back to sleep until I get tired later in the day, and then it's a pretty short nap. And on the days where I have gotten even less, all my symptoms are worse-- palpitations, pain, aches, ect. I'm scheduled for a sleep study, but I know in our case, if the cause can't be determined, they can be of limited use.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I'm scheduled for a sleep study, but I know in our case, if the cause can't be determined, they can be of limited use.

Get a sleep specialist who is a neurologist, not a pulmonary doc, if you can. Most of the pulmonary docs are looking only for sleep apnea. They do not know the first thing about sleep architecture.

I have had two sleep studies. The first was an unmitigated disaster. The second was a mitigated disaster. (Not to be a downer or anything.)

 

[perchance dreamer]

I think it's a good idea to have a sleep study if you have chronic insomnia.

Condition like RLS and apnea can really affect sleep. You might not know you have those conditions.

My ENT told me that lots of middle-aged people have undiagnosed sleep apnea. As you age, the throat structures can get flabby (thanks so much!) unless you sing at least 1 hour a day. Humming doesn't count.

I have apnea although I'm thin and don't snore. I was really surprised when I was diagnosed.

My first study showed I had some restless leg movements, but not enough to meet the threshold for treatment. It's since gone away, but I had no idea my legs were moving while I was asleep.

I also learned that my REM is really messed up. A sleep study helped my doctor learn that I have mild narcolepsy. I was shocked to learn that, too.

That said, sleep studies really suck because they are so uncomfortable. I have a study Monday, and they gave me the latest time, but I'll still have to go to sleep about 1 hour before I normally do. Also, the electrodes on my face always hurt from digging into my cheek since I'm a side sleeper.

 

[jimells]

I did a sleep study in 2010. For me, it was a waste of time and the state's money. Plus it was really miserable. How can they expect anyone to sleep when trussed up like a Christmas turkey? I seldom sleep before midnight, but I was expected to 'get ready for bed' at 7 PM. Maybe some people can sleep on someone else's schedule. I can't.

The whole experience resembled a night in jail (myself, I've only been on the visitor's side of the door): I was told to stay in the small windowless room. They took a mug shot (??), I had to pee in a bottle (to check for 'drugs'), and of course there's camera watching all night. I don't have a watch, so I brought a travel clock, and they fussed about that.

The inability to sleep was dismissed as 'first night effect'. The sleep architecture abnormalities were dismissed as 'non-specific'. The recommedations were to lose weight (even though I'm already quite thin), get more exercise (a bad idea for me), and don't drive drowsy. And for that they get to charge big bucks!

 

[Mattman1]

Ha! A mugshot-- ya know, just in case you kick the bucket looking like Jim Carey from "Batman Forever".

I rarely sleep before midnight as well. My doc wanted me in bed by 10 and no later. You would think while they are taking that urine, they would want neurotransmitter levels. Nah, they just wanna know they're not dealing with a using junkie.

 

[roxie60]

Could not sleep again. Finally got up, had some energy which is rare so did chores which felt bad and good (good to finally get some order restored to my kitchen). I have been non functional for over a week now, probably longer if I would admit it but I was trying to keep going. So I used the few hrs of increased energy to clean. Load of laundry done, sheets changed, kitchen counter cleared and cleaned, sink scrubbed, stove and microwave cleaned, then started on the pile of paper that covered the kitchen table. Anyone else get overwhelmed by all the paper one can easily collect, mail, junk mail, catalogs, political mailings, etc? Its like I need a certain level of energy just to deal with paper now a days, I know I struggle with brain fog and reading so I think that is part of the prob, I put off dealing with the paper piling up until I feel I can take action but seems I dont have the ability to deal with it, keep up with it like days of old. Frustrating. Anyway, finally exhausted after 3.5 hrs of work. activity. Fell into bed, muscles were going crazy, the jumping. tingling, twiching was off the charts. Just lay there and feel that sensation you just wonder what is causing it? This lack of sleep at the right time is killing me. I got up before 1PM, about 5 hrs fractional sleep (640AM-1245PM, woke up at least once). I even took 5-htp, l-theanine and kavinace at 1130P but they seem to have zero effect, they'll probably hit me tomorrow when I am trying to go back to work after being off a week. I woke up today extremely sore, and had alergy reaction to stirring up all the dust when cleaning. Sorry if got of topic. Just saying can't get to sleep at correct time. Been going on for years and coupled with tinitus I just feel beat up. Thaks for listening.