Positive Thinking, The Secret, Huna....

[pollycbr125]

does anyone else find it a little strange that someone joins an me/cfs forum and then doesnt make an introductionary post saying hi im so and so and then goes on to bombard a thread with long technicolour posts which most pwme would have difficulty reading anyway .

As for positive thinking I think weve all tried it at various times in our life if it was that wonderful we wouldnt be here we would all be blooming cured .

(Moderator Note - all coloured text has been changed to black)

 

[pollycbr125]

Oh WAIT...I think I figured out why human infants are born with Tumors and horrible disease and linger for months/years before dying...or children end up with horrible cancers and endure chemo etc!! They were NEGATIVE thinkers in a PAST LIFE!!! Wow it is all making sense to me now!!!!!!!!

yeah ,my son got cancer at the age of 2 1/2 he was the happiest giggliest little boy on the planet . Ive seen kids born with cancer or get it at a few months old . Ive always said folk should spend some time on a childrens cancer ward believe you me it puts a whole new perspective on everything and has got sod all to do with positive thinking either on part of the parent or the child .

 

[currer]

does anyone else find it a little strange that someone joins an me/cfs forum and then doesnt make an introductionary post saying hi im so and so and then goes on to bombard a thread with long technicolour posts which most pwme would have difficulty reading anyway .

.

Yes I thought it very odd.

(We do know this forum and its posts are monitored, by the way.)

 

[alex3619]

Yes I thought it very odd.

(We do know this forum and its posts are monitored, by the way.)

Hi currer and polycbr125, when someone appears out of nowhere and makes long and repeated posts, I always check their profile. Its a good habit to get into. When they do not connect with us by saying how they belong here, I look even more closely. However you cannot judge someone by just one day of posts. It can take people time to get adjusted.

When they start using CBT techniques without acknowledging they are doing so ... well, it raises questions.

Too many presume we do not embrace CBT because of misunderstanding or ignorance. They do not realize how many of us have tried it or investigated it and found it wanting. Based on the PACE trials, the number who found it wanting would be vastly more than the number who found it beneficial.

Bye, Alex

 

[Shell]

yeah ,my son got cancer at the age of 2 1/2 he was the happiest giggliest little boy on the planet . Ive seen kids born with cancer or get it at a few months old . Ive always said folk should spend some time on a childrens cancer ward believe you me it puts a whole new perspective on everything and has got sod all to do with positive thinking either on part of the parent or the child .

I worked in a childre's hospice for some time and I concur.

 

[pollycbr125]

Hi Alex tbh I can think of only one reason why a person would join a forum such as this and then target one thread in such a way . Ill be honest I could not even read half the posts my eyes went into a frenzy and my brain went in to overdrive . For a person to come on a forum like this and make such posts it says to me that they have no idea what ME involves or that many of us have problems with things such as sensory overload . Why is a person who clearly knows nothing of ME even here ?

tbh I find it offensive and insultive . would it be tolerated if a person went on a cancer forum and bombarded threads with well all you need folks is to think positive or a forum dealing with Aids or even worse CJD creutzfeldt-jakob disease (where there is def not gonna be a positive outcome however much positive thinking you do ) ?

 

[currer]

Well Polly maybe that someone just got bored with listening in and on a freak decided to exceed their job description and post nonsense in bright colours.

It also looked like an attempt to derail the conversation.

 

[pollycbr125]

Well Polly maybe that someone just got bored with listening in and on a freak decided to exceed their job description and post nonsense in bright colours.

It also looked like an attempt to derail the conversation.

LOL

 

[Snow Leopard]

Positive thinking has a strong effect on quality of life, but generally has no effect on health outcomes (beyond the willingness to try various treatments). I value quality of life just as much as my health, so I choose to look at things positively.

 

[Esther12]

This book is an interesting take on positive thinking by author Barbara Ehrenreich who developed breast cancer.​

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Bright-Sided: How Positive Thinking Is Undermining America​

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http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1929155,00.html​

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That on my list of books that I want to read but probably never will (it's a long list). I've generally been impressed by articles/interviews with her. If there is going to be a push back against this sort of management of the cognitions of patients, it's going to have to come from patients.

 

[Esther12]

The more I learnt the more I came across this teaching that thoughts create your destiny and you are your thoughts. That negative thoughts and experiences become trapped in your body and cause illness.

I think that it's just something people like to believe. As it's also an approach to life which favours the powerful, it is one likely to spread. I mentioned the Just World Hypothesis in the other thread, and cognitive distortions related to this seem really common: I often note them in myself.

A few years back I had a friend die after being hit by a truck. I could tell that there was a part of mind mind which wanted to find a way of blaming her for this, and I think that this was related to a desire to believe that I deserved to be alive - that I would not have behaved in the way which led to her death. Apparently these sorts of cognitions show up all over the place: people's attitude to rape victims, poverty, ill health, etc. I think that they're a serious problem for human societies, and something we should be working against rather than embracing in order to help people feel 'empowered' and 'positive'.

 

[currer]

these sorts of cognitions show up all over the place: people's attitude to rape victims, poverty, ill health, etc. I think that they're a serious problem for human societies, and something we should be working against rather than embracing in order to help people feel 'empowered' and 'positive'.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[jeffrez]

I think there is some merit to the idea that thoughts/mind can influence health and wellness, but I think it most always has to do with thoughts, beliefs, etc. on a deep unconscious level than those coming specifically from the conscious mind.

Conscious thought can of course affect health, either positively or negatively - being angry a lot raising BP, affecting cardiovascular health, etc. for one obvious example. And perhaps a pattern of "negative" thought like that eventually can penetrate or influence the unconscious and cause chronic problems - as well as vice versa: "positive" thoughts eventually shaping unconscious beliefs.

But I think it's more the case that the unconscious itself is driving the car of health, and that the way to influence, let alone access that, is not through conscious "positive" thinking, but through more emotional means (therapy, art, meditation, journaling, etc.) that can bypass the conscious mind instead of just trying to change the content of your conscious mind and hoping that has an effect on some of these deep-seated unconscious issues that most people in fact tend to have. Iow, I think it more often -and more effectively - works the other way around (the unconscious mind affecting conscious mind and health) than what the new-agers often seem to state or imply (the conscious mind affecting unconscious mind and health).

P.S. I find the idea that anyone "chose" this or any illness to be completely repugnant and odious at best. Saying unconscious patterns of thought that we've acquired could be influencing our health is one thing, saying we therefore "chose" to be sick is absolutely offensive, abhorrent, irresponsible, and even abusive, imo.

 

[Esther12]

I think there is some merit to the idea that thoughts/mind can influence health and wellness, but I think it most always has to do with thoughts, beliefs, etc. on a deep unconscious level than those coming specifically from the conscious mind.

Beyond that, there will be biological limits upon our minds which could affect all manner of things.

As a misleading oversimplification we could view our minds as computers with limited processing power - particularly demanding cognitive or emotional problems could lead to problems elsewhere, effecting different people in different ways. Our brains play a key role in all manner of bodily functions, so it wouldn't be amazing if changes to our minds and brains could also lead to problems elsewhere.

The trouble is that simply because this sort of thing can be considered 'plausible', it can be used as an excuse to medicalise and manage the cognitions and behaviours of those with health problems in a way that would not be seen as acceptable were it targeted at other groups. When we have such a limited understanding of these sorts of matters, it seems to very quickly descend in to quackery.

 

[Nielk]

All these ideas about positive thinking affecting one's health even to the point of "miraculous" spontaneous recoveries make me very nervous.

The reason being that there is no proof of that such phenomenons are attributed to the positive thoughts.

Moreover, I believe that this type of "new age" thinking jeopardises the well being of many ill people. It challenges our deep down feelings of guilt. What they are basically saying is that "if you would just stop believing that you are ill, you will get better". This feeling of guilt is counterproductive and just might cause a decline of our health and well being when we see that this has been a failure for us. It might also lead some to neglect going for medical help by putting too much stress on the fact that this positive thinking is all that's needed.

I think that a positive outlook is beneficial to all - whether one is ill or healthy but it's a far jump from that to the idea that it can "cure" one of his illness. This is a harmful belief in my opinion.

 

[alex3619]

This is not quite about positive thinking, but its some thoughts I had about CBT a while ago, and relates to the mind-body problem:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...e-and-cfs-some-musings-on-a-cool-morning.731/

Bye, Alex

 

[Jacque]

Yes I thought it very odd.

(We do know this forum and its posts are monitored, by the way.)

Yah...it became very obvious that the person that posted that has NO CLUE about what we deal with on a daily basis... The judgement and karma always catch up with these people!

 

[Jacque]

Positive thinking has a strong effect on quality of life, but generally has no effect on health outcomes (beyond the willingness to try various treatments). I value quality of life just as much as my health, so I choose to look at things positively.

AGREE 100%!!!!

 

[Jacque]

That on my list of books that I want to read but probably never will (it's a long list). I've generally been impressed by articles/interviews with her. If there is going to be a push back against this sort of management of the cognitions of patients, it's going to have to come from patients.

Yah there is a fine line between havin your rose colored glasses on all the time - and havin your head up your ass!! And I admit I have fallen in BOTH categories! It has not served me well!!!!

 

[Sean]

Two more good books are Illness as Metaphor by Susan Sontang and Bright-sided: How Positive Thinking is Undermining America by Barbara Ehrenreich.

Haven't read Ehrenreich's book, though have read an article or two by her on the same theme, and she is very good. (She also did a book about the working poor in the USA. 'Nickel and Dimed' I think it was called.)

But I have read Sontag's book and it is one of my all time favourites. Not just because of the subject matter, but as much for the extraordinary concision and clarity of her writing (thinking), from which we could all learn a lot. And it was done in the pre-word processor era!