Nitrous oxide side effects in PWME's

[LaurelW]

I had some dental work done three days ago and consented to have nitrous oxide for the first time because I've been pain-sensitive lately. It really helped with the procedure, but I've been spacey and nauseated ever since. It seems that the general consensus is that it wears off within minutes, but that doesn't seem to be the case with me. Do we react differently to this drug for some reason? Anything I can do at this point to lessen these symptoms?
Thanks!

 

[Enid]

I've had to have major dental work done myself Laurel and being a little forewarned stayed only with injections - not too painful though. I'd suggest steer clear if you can it may take extra long to wear off.

 

[richvank]

I had some dental work done three days ago and consented to have nitrous oxide for the first time because I've been pain-sensitive lately. It really helped with the procedure, but I've been spacey and nauseated ever since. It seems that the general consensus is that it wears off within minutes, but that doesn't seem to be the case with me. Do we react differently to this drug for some reason? Anything I can do at this point to lessen these symptoms?
Thanks!

Hi, Laurel.

Nitrous oxide deactivates vitamin B12. People with ME/CFS have a functional B12 deficiency (according to the GD-MCB hypothesis as well as quite a lot of lab testing), so nitrous oxide can be expected to make this worse.

I would suggest supplementing with vitamin B12. My preference is sublingual hydroxocobalamin at 2,000 micrograms per day, but if you have some other form on hand, either sublingual or ordinary oral, I would suggest going ahead and taking it.

I don't recall whether you have tried the methylation treatment, but in the longer term, that can help to correct the functional B12 deficiency.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[LaurelW]

Thanks, Rich. Does the brand matter? I haven't tried methylation treatment as I'm currently on Ampligen and it's helping, but I will probably try it once I go off to try to stay well.

Enid, could you be more specific about how you were forewarned?

 

[richvank]

Thanks, Rich. Does the brand matter? I haven't tried methylation treatment as I'm currently on Ampligen and it's helping, but I will probably try it once I go off to try to stay well.

Enid, could you be more specific about how you were forewarned?

Hi, Laurel.

I'm glad to hear that Ampligen is helping you.

I think there are several good brands of B12 supplements. I favor the Perque B12 Guard, which is a sublingual hydroxocobalamin lozenge. But if you want quick relief, I would say take whatever B12 supplement you can easily get
(or eat calf liver!)

I hope you will be able to try the methylation protocol. It has helped most PWMEs who have tried it.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Wayne]

Go to the 37:00 Minute Mark on this video to watch in detail why nitrous oxide can be so dangerous to pwCFS.

Folate and Methylation Defects and Metabolism in 2013: Clinical Breakthroughs (Part 1 - Presentation)

 

[Helen]

Thanks @Wayne!
I think most women know some other woman (-en) who got a post partum depression (after giving birth) or even a psychosis. If they had got B12 and folate treatment after the pain killing nitrous oxide they had probably stayed healthy. This is old knowledge but seems to have been forgotten by many doctors. I think we can guess some SNP´s of these poor women...

 

[knackers323]

Are nitrous oxide and nitric oxide the same thing? If so I am pretty sure this is what a dr jay Goldstein was finding could often bring about almost immediate remission in cfs patients. I would love to try it but can't find an online source for it. Anyone know of one?

 

[valentinelynx]

Are nitrous oxide and nitric oxide the same thing? If so I am pretty sure this is what a dr jay Goldstein was finding could often bring about almost immediate remission in cfs patients. I would love to try it but can't find an online source for it. Anyone know of one?

No, sorry nitrous oxide and nitric oxide are not the same thing! Nitric oxide is produced in the body. It is plays many roles, some good, some bad. It is a free radical, and a cellular signaling molecule. The only medical use I know of for pure nitric oxide (which is a gas) is for pulmonary hypertension, but it is very rare and expensive.

As far as ME/CFS goes, Dr Martin Pall has a theory called the NO/ONOO theory that involves the role of NO and free radicals in this illness and related ones such as MCS. It is a complex theory. He proposes a number of supplements that can influence the process. See: http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/mcs09.htm

I'm not sure what you are thinking of in regard to Dr Goldstein. I was a patient of his years ago. He did use a number of NMDA antagonists (such as ketamine) with good result. Perhaps that's what you are thinking of? I seriously doubt he had access to nitric oxide gas. We couldn't even get it for a high risk surgery for a patient with severe pulmonary hypertension in an academic hospital (back in the early 2000s).

 

[knackers323]

No, sorry nitrous oxide and nitric oxide are not the same thing! Nitric oxide is produced in the body. It is plays many roles, some good, some bad. It is a free radical, and a cellular signaling molecule. The only medical use I know of for pure nitric oxide (which is a gas) is for pulmonary hypertension, but it is very rare and expensive.

As far as ME/CFS goes, Dr Martin Pall has a theory called the NO/ONOO theory that involves the role of NO and free radicals in this illness and related ones such as MCS. It is a complex theory. He proposes a number of supplements that can influence the process. See: http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/mcs09.htm

I'm not sure what you are thinking of in regard to Dr Goldstein. I was a patient of his years ago. He did use a number of NMDA antagonists (such as ketamine) with good result. Perhaps that's what you are thinking of? I seriously doubt he had access to nitric oxide gas. We couldn't even get it for a high risk surgery for a patient with severe pulmonary hypertension in an academic hospital (back in the early 2000s).

Hi yes I was thinking of nitro glycerine. Did you try this? I've heard he got good results with it.

Can I ask what else you tried with him? Thanks

 

[leela]

Long before I got ME I would refuse nitrous oxide at the dentist, because it made me feel nauseous and, paradoxically, very anxious. It always felt immediately really toxic, before I was sick or knew about any of this stuff, so I reckon the whole methylation theory is proving itself right there.

 

[Helen]

As far as ME/CFS goes, Dr Martin Pall has a theory called the NO/ONOO theory that involves the role of NO and free radicals in this illness and related ones such as MCS. It is a complex theory. He proposes a number of supplements that can influence the process. See: http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/mcs09.htm.

Thanks for a great link. There are also lots of interesting facts about genetics , mercury and other toxins a.o.