• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

New protocol combines methylation, mito, glutathione support, etc.

Messages
64
Think the best addition to the simplified protocol is going to be NT Factor. Have to repair the damage somehow, and that provides building blocks even if methylation's not turned on yet. Hope my theory is right, b/c I have some on the way. : P

Hi Jeffrez,

Could you please clarify whether the NT factor is on the protocol which Rich has pasted the link to? I don't see it on the list. Maybe I'm just too tired. I did a search function, still can't find it. Or was it not on this protocol at all and it's one of your suggestions?

Thanks!
 
Messages
64
Hi, Cureminded.

You're welcome.

I don't know the reason for the calcium limit. I know that Amy Yasko warns against too much calcium, because it is involved in the process of excitotoxicity in the neurons, and that is a problem with PWME's as well as autistics.

Yes, generally speaking that ratio of calcium to magnesium is about right. However, it may be best to lower the ratio for ME/CFS, because intracellular magnesium is low in this disorder, and intracellular calcium can be too high. I think that occurs because the membrane ion pumps are not working as well as they should. One issue is low ATP production by the mitochondria, because they are dysfunctional.

Best regards,

Rich

Hi Rich,

Many thanks for the clarification. I will have try to take calcium and magnesium separately and in different ratios in the future.

Could you please clarify two more things? I just understood that niacin depletes methyl groups from the presentation below. But niacin is needed for mitochondrial function? So how would you suggest to combine metafolin and niacin without negating the effect of metafolin? Should these then be taken at different timepoints in the day? (And in which dosages?) I assume that niacinamide works here the same way as niacinamide does. Am I wrong? (edited) I realized that niacin and niacinamide don't work the same here.

http://mthfr.net/methylation-and-mthfr-defects-presentation/2012/04/25/

The presentation also mentions that too much of SAMe may cause feedback inhibition of methylation. I have ordered SAMe and was going to take it, but now I'm wondering how much is too much. Any ideas on that?

Your help and time are much appreciated.

Cheers,
Cureminded
 

jeffrez

Senior Member
Messages
1,112
Location
NY
Hi Jeffrez,

Could you please clarify whether the NT factor is on the protocol which Rich has pasted the link to? I don't see it on the list. Maybe I'm just too tired. I did a search function, still can't find it. Or was it not on this protocol at all and it's one of your suggestions?

Thanks!

Hi cureminded - I don't think it's officially in the protocol yet, although richvank can correct me if I'm wrong. I did a search after learning about the product and saw him mention that he was considering adding it to the protocol, so I was just saying I thought it stood the chance of being a good addition if it were added. Theoretically it seems like a great idea, but whether it will actually work for this population perhaps remains to be seen. I'll let you know in another 2-4 weeks if I see any improvement. : D
 
Messages
64
Hi cureminded - I don't think it's officially in the protocol yet, although richvank can correct me if I'm wrong. I did a search after learning about the product and saw him mention that he was considering adding it to the protocol, so I was just saying I thought it stood the chance of being a good addition if it were added. Theoretically it seems like a great idea, but whether it will actually work for this population perhaps remains to be seen. I'll let you know in another 2-4 weeks if I see any improvement. : D

Thank for the clarification Jeffrez,

I thought it was part of the Hodgson protocol referred to by Rich at the top of this thread and that I overlooked something.

It will be interesting to see how it works for you.

Good luck.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Well, my Life Extension magazine says that PQQ is the bomb (of course they're selling it):rolleyes: . Seriously though, they say it's supposed create new mitochrondria which is above and beyond other supplements which only assist existing mitochondria. I was reading customer reviews on iHerb and someone said it made them too wired/overstimulated. Since regular old Coenzyme Q10 (not even Ubiquinol) is stimulating for me I don't think I want to mess around with PQQ. Here's what they say:
PQQ’s potential to stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis was foreshadowed by repeated early findings indicating its central role in growth and development across multiple forms of life.
It has been shown to be a potent growth factor in plants, bacteria, and higher organisms.21,22 Pre-clinical studies reveal that when deprived of dietary PQQ, animals exhibit stunted growth, compromised immunity, impaired reproductive capability, and most importantly, fewer mitochondria in their tissue. Rates of conception, the number of offspring, and survival rates in juvenile animals are also significantly reduced in the absence of PQQ.23-25 Introducing PQQ back into the diet reverses these effects, restoring systemic function while simultaneously increasing mitochondrial numberand energetic efficiency.

As the primary engines of almost all bioenergy production, the mitochondria rank among the physiological structuresmost vulnerable to destruction from oxidative damage. PQQ’s formidable free radical–scavenging capacity furnishes the mitochondria with superior antioxidant protection.
At the core of this capacity is an extraordinary molecular stability.30 As a bioactive coenzyme, PQQ actively participates in the energy transfer within the mitochondria that supplies the body with most of its bioenergy (like CoQ10).
Unlike other antioxidant compounds, PQQ’s exceptional stability allows it to carry out thousands of these electron transfers without undergoing molecular breakdown. It has been proven especially effective in neutralizing the ubiquitous superoxide and hydroxyl radicals.31 According to the most recent research, “PQQ is 30 to 5,000 timesmore efficient in sustaining redox cycling (mitochondrial energy production) . . . than other common [antioxidant compounds], e.g. ascorbic acid.”21 A consistent finding in the scientific literature is that nutrients like PQQ provide more wide-ranging benefits than conventional antioxidants the general public relies on.

PQQ also interacts in a beneficial manner with our brain’s neurotransmitter systems. In particular, PQQ protects neurons by modifying the important NMDA receptor site.39,40 NMDA is a powerful mediator of “excitotoxicity,” a response to long-term overstimulation of neurons that is associated with many neurodegenerative diseases and seizures.41-43 PQQ also protects against neurotoxicity induced by other toxins, including mercury.44,45
 
Messages
64
Don't know if it's this protocol in combination with Fred's, but it might have been. I've been taking PQQ, ubiquinol, carnitine b12, vit K2, C, A, D, B complex, B12, E, niacinamide, chromium, zink, selenium, magnesium and a whole bunch of other stuff. It took months of ups and downs, but I'm a lot less tired in general and my immune system is functioning better. Though it's not a stable equilibrium, there's a trend for improvement. So who knows... I recommend to try it.

As a side note: Vitamin K2 and magnesium are not discussed that much on the forum, but they seem to be quite important in general and generally overlooked. I'm not saying that they are the cornerstones for CFS, but in the end we need all the essential elements to function properly.
I found the following book quite an eye opener on K2: Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox Kate Rheaume-Bleue

Good luck you guys and thanks Rich and Fred!