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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Hi, Gestalt and the group.
With regard to Accutane, here's something else to consider: Accutane has been found to raise the gene expression of the enzyme glycine N-methyl transferase. The effect of this is to lower the ratio of SAMe to SAH, and that lowers the methylation rates of the methyltransferase reactions, including the ones that methylate DNA and thus silence gene expression.
I have encountered several people who became chronically ill after Accutane (or Roaccutane in Australia) treatment. I think that what might have happened is that the gene expression for glycine N-methyltransferase got "stuck" high because of a positive feedback mechanism. Since methylfolate downregulates glycine N-methyltransferase at the biochemical level, taking a fairly high dosage of it may break this vicious circle.
Best regards,
Rich
I see you found my crummy hand-drawn sketch!
Very interesting post.
Rich
I am curious if anyone else has experimented with IC3 & DIM?
Can I tell if I need these supps from my plasma estrogen(s) test?
I have double comt downregulation, but my plasma estrogens seemed OK.
Is this still worth giving a shot?
Hi Gestalt, I found your thread as I have a theory that my post accutane fatigue is also caused high oestrogen or a compromised oestrogen metabolism. We run a big thread here http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?20097-Official-Accutane-Thread and someone posted a link here.
You say that glutamine and protein diet have taken you to 70%, but how has your theory worked out since taking DIM, i3c and dgluconate? What are your thoughts on taking an aromotase inhibitor to lower E2 in the first place? I know it will also lower good oestrogen but I was thinking that maybe the E2 metabolism is compromised or sluggish as total E2 is too high so E2 metabolism isn't able to keep up?
There are pharmaceutical grade armotase inhibitors, but I am a bit leery about those. Do you have any recommendations? I know some are used by bodybuilders on steroids, and also by women to fight breast cancer.
The DIM, I3C and glucrate has boosted my energy and well being about 10-15% i'd say. So I'm at about 80-85% now. Once I get the results of all my genetic tests hopefully I can fine-tune myself to 100%.
Here is a very informative website on I3C/DIM. It says I3C has a lot of drug interaction potential as it affects CYP3A4 and others:
http://www.dimfaq.com/site/cruchoice.htm
It says this is not true of DIM.
Here are some interesting web sites.
http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/diindolylmethane
DIM kills some cancers and prevents others from spreading. The mechanism is THROUGH affecting P450 enzymes to CLEAR ESTRADIOL FASTER.
So therefore these would be highly interactive with drug therapy. (which latter the article doesnot mention).
http://home.earthlink.net/~ckaniklidis/interactions.htm
Says that eaing broccoli 2x/day causes 40% less chance of various hormonal cancers. It works by modifying gene expression for P450 enzymes
So that estradiol is cleared fast and thus less chance of cancer. However this results in drug interactions. It says a study showed tamoxifen is Not affected by DIM but *IS* affected by I3C (rises to 3 times dose which may be toxic). the induction of CYP enzymes by I3C, especially those of the 1A subfamily, could be a cause for concern, as these play a role in activation of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) and aromatic amines with known toxicities, a concern that appears not to be shared with DIM. The reason for this may be that in the acidic conditions of the stomach after oral exposure, I3C becomes a complex mixture more than 20 different I3C-derived compounds, including DIM, all having various pharmacological/toxicological effects, while DIM is relatively more stable in acid and does not robustly undergo further condensation reactions, suggesting that the more stable DIM component may be the safer compound to deploy in the human context.
Lots more in here on studies of I3C and DIM vs tamoxifen some indicating tamoxifen levels can be pretty high with no adverse effects,,,etc. Read the details.
So i found the conversion rate for I3C into DIM on this link. Therefore it is much more advantageous to take just DIM.O ok, I know Indole 3, but isn't I3C converted to DIM when taken so would there be a need to take both if you are taking DIM?