Methylation.... anyone experience anger or agitation?

[place]

Hey hey!
It did go away the first week of May. No problems until I get to the week prior to my period (sorry gentlemen) this month. Had a several days with intense anger. Not my usual PMS because I know I am just delightful all the time =).

My solution has been potassium to any problem but it does not seem to work with this issue. Thankfully I lost my hunger issues before I had to buy new pants.

I have been increasing my Mb12 and have stopped at 15mg and now am raising my mfolate (started on Saturday). I'm not 100% sure (not even 50% sure) but I think my issues have been more mfolate but time will tell as I titrate up.

I am taking Zink but am unsure when I started. I started taking L carnitine about a 10 days ago.

I will keep you posted if I see a pattern with my hormones or anything else.

 

[Freddd]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Much appreciated!

I had been increasing my dose but have stopped for a time being. The agitation is the only symptom or sign of taking the B12 protocol. I had already been on the support supplements for months.

The first day I (two weeks ago) I took the b's i noticed a drop in energy, took the potassium and all was good. But it does not seem to help the anger. I am going to stop titrating up and see if it goes away with time.

Unfortunately, this is the only sign I have gotten from the protocol.

Even stranger, I only get this way when I am on steroids!

Is it possible to get worse? I am high functioning, I go to work and am able to workout three times a week. But only with a whole lot of meds! Nothing what I was doing (16 hour days and running marathons)

Hi Place,

Anger, specifically, appears to be an interaction of the ATP generation with the limbic system. Likely l-carnitine fumarate might step that up a lot. A careful titration would be prudent. I don't know of any way to relieve those deficiencies without having these kinds of repsonse so the trick is to titrate certain things slowly but keep going so that they neural damage can have a chance to heal. It may indicate the specific part of the brain damaged by the deficiencies.

Steroids affect the neurological biochemistry. I take prescribed testosterone becasue I became abnormally low 20 years ago, likely because of the deficiencies. On the low side one is depressed and low energy and feels terrible, very FMS like.

The l-carnitne fumarate should be titrated very carefully as it may be very powerful even at quantities under 1 mg.

 

[Freddd]

Hey hey!
It did go away the first week of May. No problems until I get to the week prior to my period (sorry gentlemen) this month. Had a several days with intense anger. Not my usual PMS because I know I am just delightful all the time =).

My solution has been potassium to any problem but it does not seem to work with this issue. Thankfully I lost my hunger issues before I had to buy new pants.

I have been increasing my Mb12 and have stopped at 15mg and now am raising my mfolate (started on Saturday). I'm not 100% sure (not even 50% sure) but I think my issues have been more mfolate but time will tell as I titrate up.

I am taking Zink but am unsure when I started. I started taking L carnitine about a 10 days ago.

I will keep you posted if I see a pattern with my hormones or anything else.

Hi Place,

You need to hold on the mb12 and start titrating the adb12, without l-carnitne for now. Also, the Metafolin needs to be brought up until all the low folate symptoms go away. I would suggest starting with a literal crumb of the Dibencozide. After you get that to a quarter tablet (2.5mg) , then the l-carnitine.

You might find that the adb12/caernitine, either or both produce extreme anger, rage, fear, anxiety etc in various orders . A very careful titration is in order.

I have found that anger and anxiety and a few associated things are strongly associated woth the limbic system and ATP generation in already damaged neurons making them very irratable as they startup in a damaged state. As far as I know first comes the startup and then the potential of healing. Without startup they don't heal. Methylation affects it slightly but mostly it is ATP startup. Believe what you want but calling it methylation won't help you find your way through the maze. Calling it ATP startup allows getting a balanced startup that deals with the sotuation by titrating what matters.

 

[Gavman]

Yeah I have been having anger issues too. Basically i'm working alot now, studying and seeing someone. And its all a bit heavy to handle sometimes. If the body is processing better, i'm sure anger will come out more and seems unnatural but its probably much more natural to more normal processes. I feel like an emo but generally i'm doing better.

Also, as red blood cells start to develop normally, wouldn't this give more energy. With more energy, we are likely to go through more emotions and more processing. *shrugs* Im just gonna keep it up and learn to deal with the anger with good boundaries and psychology.

 

[Freddd]

Yeah I have been having anger issues too. Basically i'm working alot now, studying and seeing someone. And its all a bit heavy to handle sometimes. If the body is processing better, i'm sure anger will come out more and seems unnatural but its probably much more natural to more normal processes. I feel like an emo but generally i'm doing better.

Also, as red blood cells start to develop normally, wouldn't this give more energy. With more energy, we are likely to go through more emotions and more processing. *shrugs* Im just gonna keep it up and learn to deal with the anger with good boundaries and psychology.

Hi Gavman,

In a particular subset of persons here, there is a particular set of responses based on a deficiency in a specifc area of the brain with anxiety, fear, anger, rage and things like that completely out of control in bursting out, very biological. I have been posting about it and am going to be posting a titration method in a day or two.

Increased red cells inprove oxygenation a bit. However, recovering brain brings up a lot of unprocessed things and can be pretty volitile during healing, especially for those involving the limbic su=ystem who have "anxiety" and anger as a constant fearture that is quickly triggered with certain supplements.

 

[Gavman]

That makes sense, Freddd. I know for me, i struggled to touch into my anger. I am becoming less and less passive, i am assertive instead of angry but it still bubbles away inside of me. Its been since i've upped my dose of folic acid. Will be interested to read more on it from you Freddd.
Did you find yourself going through more emotional pain and difficulties? I'm glad I studied NLP, learnt boundaries and cognitive behavior techniques before i went through these emotional instabilities. Its bloody annoying but i can move through it.. eventually.

 

[Freddd]

That makes sense, Freddd. I know for me, i struggled to touch into my anger. I am becoming less and less passive, i am assertive instead of angry but it still bubbles away inside of me. Its been since i've upped my dose of folic acid. Will be interested to read more on it from you Freddd.
Did you find yourself going through more emotional pain and difficulties? I'm glad I studied NLP, learnt boundaries and cognitive behavior techniques before i went through these emotional instabilities. Its bloody annoying but i can move through it.. eventually.

Hi Gavman,

When I started the mb12 on top of all the basics at the time which included folic acid, the only things missing being Metafolin, adb12, l-carnitne fumarate and Alpha Lipoic acid and enough potassium, First a lifelong depression lifted, With my nervous system waking up suddenly there was the "Oh my God, what a mess I've made of my life", basically playing Rip Van Winkle for 17 years for all intents and purposes. I expected to see my infant daughters and one had graduated college and the other was at college. This realization was devastating. Then I got hit with 17 years of unprocessed emotioal traumas and such. It was very rugged going for about 6 months with mb12, 6 months with adb12, 6 months with l-carnitine fumate and in it now with the Metafolin. and I didn't have any limbic system startup effect as this subset of people I'm talking about. The dose of mb12 didn't turn on total anxiety and panic, anger or rage or anything else intolerable. It was ecstatic some days despite the horrible pain of realization that what I chad called my life was long gone. I started being more assertive in the family, participating again, and was told, "we don't need you after 17 years of non-participation." A year later my now exwife filed. She had adapted to me being a non participating ghost in my own house. There was no place left for me. I also got through it with the methods of inner work I had learned. NLP should be a help. I will say it now but please don't mis-interpret. It would have been a whole lot easier to just die but I'm glad I didn't (dozens of NDEs though). So now I am the healthiest I have ever been and appear to have at least another 20 good years to go. It was worth working through all that. I still have neurological healing occurring and every now and then I will pick up on a whole section of things suddenly remembered and start another round of processing and integration.

 

[place]

Freddd, same thing happened to me with my first practice husband. As I got better with T3/doxy/cortif he could not handle not being in total control. He liked the power. It just wasn't going to work out and we split our ways.

But I feel everyone should have a practice husband, practice makes perfect for the second one =)

PS. Gaveman- from looking at your photo, I hope you set aside your fire juggling when you are bubbling with anger =) I personally try to shut my office door and put my baseball (crickett for you britts) bat outside my door to indicate my mood!

 

[Gavman]

Yeah its very difficult to change connections with family once paths have already been established. Being passive and then becoming assertive can seem to others that we are being aggressive for no reason. I spent the majority of my life passive because i didnt have the fuel to not be. When our body keeps malfunctioning, its very easy to become world weary, as everything becomes a massive burden. Good to hear you're doing well now Freddd! And very happy that you have learnt inner work tools to get through stuff.

Place, i seethe with anger at times. Its more people being verbally abusive or controlling that gets to me. But I've been doing martial arts for 15 years so i'm quite capable of not losing my shit in a dangerous way. BASH THOSE PILLOWS PEOPLE!

 

[Marlène]

But I feel everyone should have a practice husband, practice makes perfect for the second one =)

How is your temper now Place?

 

[place]

It comes and goes. Yesterday and today were a temper scale of 6 out of 10. my..normal.. is 0. But it is that time of the month. I haven't had to count to ten at all, so that's progress!

 

[bertiedog]

To tell the truth, each time I start a methyl group I get more aggressive, and thats not my normal nature. I have the uncontrollable feelng that I want to hit my kids (I don't) and the sound of my husband chewing makes me want to stick a fork in his eye! (I don't) But when its been a few weeks these go away (unless you increase the dose!).

I agree with Hixxy, don't put that sort of pressure on yourself, or you're likely to fail. I did that and had to go off everything and start back at square one! I lost at least 6 months of my time that way.

Angela

This happens to me every time I add in extra MB12 or active folates. I already take 3 Thorne Basic Nutrients daily plus lots of extra minerals and essential fatty acids which seems to give me what I need and its extremely bad for me to take extra. Anyway I know I don't need anymore because I have got well in the last month since breathing oxygen daily. I guess it is the icing on the cake so to speak for all the work I have been doing over the past 12 years, ie physiological doses of adrenal meds which allow me to take thyroid support like dessicated thyroid and a bit of thyroxine plus all the supplements especially for methylation but not at high doses.

My brain is working brilliantly and my body is picking up in a way I would never have imagined so personally I don't believe in high doses of anything and my experience is we don't need it.

Pam

 

[arx]

Hi Gavman,

In a particular subset of persons here, there is a particular set of responses based on a deficiency in a specifc area of the brain with anxiety, fear, anger, rage and things like that completely out of control in bursting out, very biological. I have been posting about it and am going to be posting a titration method in a day or two.

Increased red cells inprove oxygenation a bit. However, recovering brain brings up a lot of unprocessed things and can be pretty volitile during healing, especially for those involving the limbic su=ystem who have "anxiety" and anger as a constant fearture that is quickly triggered with certain supplements.

Hi,

I really need some help here.

After 3 months of taking mb12, I titrated adb12 for 15 days and then added Acetyl-L-Carnitine(ALCAR). It has been four days and already I am facing huge startup effects. I am titrating it, starting off with a tiny crumb. Most prominent symptoms are mental volatility(aggression,anger,sadness,anxiety,stimulated), buzzing sensations and pain in different regions of the brain, disorientation,fatigue,flu-like feeling,shortness of breath and a lot of psychological junk coming up in thoughts and dreams,so much so that I prefer not to sleep than to sleep,as sleep is stimulating rather than relaxing. A more elaborate symptom list can be found here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/titrating-ad-b12-and-l-carnitine.19124/
All this started with adb12 but it was a lot smoother then. ALCAR has been very powerful and it feels like for the past 4 days I've been pretty much living in hell.

• Is this indicative of a adb12/carnitine deficiency and neural damage?
  My understanding says that this is startup(ATP startup and limbic system response) and I have to go through this,however difficult it might seem right now, but is there any way to know how long this will last, or how things can be smoothed out with ALCAR?
• Also, will taking benzos be a problem? I feel a lot of effects inside my brain and so I am not taking benzos, thinking that they may interfere with the process. Any suggestions on this would be very helpful.

Thanks.

 

[greenshots]

my understanding is that acetyl carnitne acts like a methyl group but L Carnitine doesn't. I wonder two things as I read your post. you sound sympathetic dominant and maybe can't be on so many methyls or all of that B12 and, or, you're a COMT ++ and can't tolerate the methyls either. Just a thought but maybe you shouldn't push thru with all of them.

 

[arx]

Hi Angela

I'm not pushing. I'm going in a slow and systematic manner by titrating the dose,and still facing such a harsh reaction!
Could you please tell what does 'sympathetic dominant' mean?
I don't know about COMT ++ and don't think there is methylation panel and gene testing here in India.
I can tolerate mb12 and methylfolate, but adb12 intensified the symptoms and ALCAR well, intensified a lot more. Can't all this be ATP startup?
I might fall into the adb12/carnitine deficiency category as Freddd explained above and in the 'HYPERSENSITIVITY IDENTIFIED' thread.

Thanks.

 

[greenshots]

Sympathetic dominance, Gestalt (on this site) did a write up on it but my doctor also uses some of the theory.
http://www.gestaltreality.com/2012/07/11/metabolic-diet-supplements-an-exploration/

COMT ++ is an enzyme that determines methyl donors
There are two main sites most use

23&me
https://www.23andme.com/

Or holistic health (yasko)
http://www.holisticheal.com/comprehensive-methylation-panel-with-methylation-pathway-analysis.html

 

[Ocean]

If so when does it go away?

I might have to hide from everyone until then or I won't have a job, family or friends =(

Any solutions?

Place

I haven't tried mehtylation but I've had a lot of trouble with anger and agitation with certain supplements including one of the B vitamins(which I think are part of methylation?) I think B5 or B3 I can't remember. My approach for now has been to avoid them because the effects were just too disruptive and not acceptable. I don't know why I've had that reaction and I only tried the tiniest of doses, almost negligible really.

 

[Anteah]

Arx, i have been going through same abd12 startup for thr last few weeks. I have however, determined that it is the heavy metal detox that iam experiencing. Thhinking to try oral EDTA once the startup completely stops, since it has already became more tolerable. Id go slower and slowly push through it, thats what i did and i feel like i am finally coming out of it. Few days ago had the best day in 2 years as far as energy is concerned, but have upped the dosage of adb12 today and back to agression/depression.

 

[arx]

Arx, i have been going through ?same abd12 startup for thr last few weeks. I have however, determined that it is the heavy metal detox that iam experiencing. Thhinking to try oral EDTA once the startup completely stops, since it has already became more tolerable. Id go slower and slowly push through it, thats what i did and i feel like i am finally coming out of it. Few days ago had the best day in 2 years as far as energy is concerned, but have upped the dosage of adb12 today and back to agression/depression.

Hi Anteah,

Good to know about your progress. As for me,Freddd has stated that these startup symptoms are indicative of a adb12/carnitine deficiency. I went slow with the adb12 and it was bearable, but after adding ALCAR to the existing protocol, the effect was out of the world intense. I can sense neurological sensations in my spine and brain, and pains in random areas in the body. Adb12 didn't produce the aggression/depression mode that much, it was bearable. ALCAR made it unbearable, lots of emotional outbursts!
Last night I tried some niacin and it cooled off things. What else are you taking?

 

[Gavman]

Interesting, arx. I was having intense pain that stayed with me through yoga.. since hitting the cyano b12 and methylfolate, i can actually move through pain. I remember my therapist telling me that anger rises and falls and i was like: what? no it doesnt, it just stays there. The past two times its like: wow yoga isnt painful, it can be enjoyable. Hope it lasts.