Glutathione normal - still have excess oxidative stress

[globalpilot]

Hi all,
I reported recently that using the methylation protocal and liposomal glutahtione I was able to get my reduced glutahtione to well within the normal range. My oxidized glutathione also moved to within the nromal range but on the high side.

That's all great , however, glutathione is a water soluble antioxidant. So I had my urine isoprostane measured which is a measure of oxidative damage to cell membrane fats which would reflect on my fat soluble antioxidants. The isoprostane is high at 144ng/gCreatinine. Normal is 80-130. My previous result was 172 so a significant improvement but still significant oxidative stress.

I will add fat soluble antioxidants (ALA probably and retest).
I now think it is important to get fat soluble antixodants as well when doing the methylation protocal.

 

[alex3619]

Hi globalpilot, glutathione works together with two fat soluble antioxidants, ALA and vit E. Gamma tocopherol is the most powerful E. These antioxidants work in networks - by themselves they are not that effective. I would say more but I need to catch some sleep. Bye, Alex

 

[richvank]

Hi, GP.

Thanks for posting this.

I think Alex gave some good information about the antioxidant network.

What I am wondering is why are the lipids still subject to oxidative stress? What is causing that? In your case, I suppose the main suspect now is the enterovirus infection that has been found.

As you may know, the unsaturated fatty acids in the lipid membranes of the cells are the most vulnerable molecules to oxidative damage.

Because of cases like yours, in which the methylation treatment has restored the methylation, folates, and glutathione, but there is still evidence of oxidative stress, I am shifting my focus to immunology and infectious diseases, as I think that the pathogens are the main suspects in causing the remaining oxidative stress. Indeed, in many cases pathogens may have been the "first cause" or close to it in bringing down glutathione and the methylation cycle, and producing the host of problems that stem from that.

Best regards.

Rich

 

[kday]

Rich,

What about biotoxins? Could you have normal glutathione, and have biotoxins that are non-responsive to glutathione contributing to oxidative stress and negatively impacting immunity?

I think infectious disease is a big aspect too. For me, bacterial infections. But I don't think it's by any means the last piece of the puzzle. Even if these infections are defeated, they just seem to come right back whenever they please. Opportunistic.

 

[kday]

I've been skeptical for years that mold/mycotoxins could play a role in my case. I didn't think I was a case that was sensitive to mold really. Not until a bad musty/moldy hotel when I traveled east. The effects are systemic and absolutely horrific causing pain, anxiety, and tremors that pain killers and anxiety meds can't relieve until you leave the building.

 

[richvank]

I've been skeptical for years that mold/mycotoxins could play a role in my case. I didn't think I was a case that was sensitive to mold really. Not until a bad musty/moldy hotel when I traveled east. The effects are systemic and absolutely horrific causing pain, anxiety, and tremors that pain killers and anxiety meds can't relieve until you leave the building.

Hi, kday.

I do think that biotoxins are a big issue in some cases. I don't know whether they will show up as depleted or oxidized glutathione, but I suspect so. Slayadragon has found studies showing that glutathione is depleted by some of the mold toxins. There are also some papers (without clinical data) that claim that mold toxins can lower the B12 status. We know from Dr. Shoemaker's work that the innate immune system is very much involved in biotoxin illness, and that involves inflammation, which involves oxidative stress, which can be expected to impact glutathione, but I haven't put all of this together in a coherent way yet.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[globalpilot]

Hi Rich,
I am so pleased to hear you are going to be studying immunology and infectious diseases. It has made my day!
I think the enterovirus could very well be the problem in my case, or , the overgrowth of whatever is in my upper gut. I also just got tested for Lyme to rule it out.

Regards,
GP

Hi, GP.

Thanks for posting this.

I think Alex gave some good information about the antioxidant network.

What I am wondering is why are the lipids still subject to oxidative stress? What is causing that? In your case, I suppose the main suspect now is the enterovirus infection that has been found.

As you may know, the unsaturated fatty acids in the lipid membranes of the cells are the most vulnerable molecules to oxidative damage.

Because of cases like yours, in which the methylation treatment has restored the methylation, folates, and glutathione, but there is still evidence of oxidative stress, I am shifting my focus to immunology and infectious diseases, as I think that the pathogens are the main suspects in causing the remaining oxidative stress. Indeed, in many cases pathogens may have been the "first cause" or close to it in bringing down glutathione and the methylation cycle, and producing the host of problems that stem from that.

Best regards.

Rich