CFS is a Bacterial Infection

[heapsreal]

So what does one do if they have a bacterial infection, allow infection to keep going and probably get worse or try abx and possibly get resistent to abx, either way it looks like we are screwed??
Bottom line is we need to somehow improve our immune function, somehow??

 

[Adster]

Immune modulators and poo transplants look like a good option. Good except for the bit where you put someone else's poo up yer bum, of course.

 

[xchocoholic]

Helicobacter pylori is known to biofilm itself. You need to take N-acetylcysteine together with the antibiotics.

hi nanonug,

Thanks but, per my metametrix stool testing post h pylori and parasite treatment which included clarithromycin, metronadazole and pepto bismol, I'm clean. My symptoms have been completely gone for a few months now too. Kow .. Tc .. X

 

[xchocoholic]

"A number of studies with a variety of probiotic strains have been conducted to determine the extent to which probiotics colonize the intestine. The combined results demonstrate conclusively that ingested strains do not become established members of the normal microbiota, but persist only during periods of dosing or for relative short periods thereafter (Fuller, 1992; Tannock, 1995; Tannock, 1997)."
http://www.isapp.net/docs/immune.pdf

Thanks. I quickly read through it but I got the gist of it. I've been making kefir, fermented cabbage and was making kombucha for awhile and just assumed bacteria would replicate in the body like it does in a container.

Fwiw. I had to use bleach in my containers to completely eliminate the Kombucha scobies. Hot soapy water and using the dishwasher didn't kill this even over time. If I let anything sit in one of those containers I had a scoby.

That was a very strong bacteria yeast combo. I wonder if these two organisms join forces in our intestines. Maybe a yeast like s boulardi would help the bacteria stick.

Do you know if there's been anything more recent ? Or if they followed up on this ? It just hit me .. I wonder what some of the gluten sensitivity / celiac doctors like dr fasano says about this. Or the DAN doctors .. It's late for me but I'll look tomorrow.

Heaps,

The clarithromycin and metronadazole cleared my sinuses too. Mine are so stuffy 24/7 that it's hard to breath. It's back so it didn't last. I was too sick to research it but I remember reading that we can get parasites in our sinuses too. Gross ..

Tc .. X

 

[Adster]

.....

That was a very strong bacteria yeast combo. I wonder if these two organisms join forces in our intestines. Maybe a yeast like s boulardi would help the bacteria stick.
...

Tc .. X

That's an interesting idea actually. A bit like how lichens exists by way of a symbiotic relationship between a fungus and an algea, perhaps.

 

[hixxy]

I've posted this in the past, but the nitazoxanide, furazolidone, secnidazole triple therapy gave me complete remission nearly 3 years ago for 1 1/2 weeks. I felt better then EVER. Even before ME/CFS.

Relapse was very rapid, good one day woke up back at square one the next.

So it's highly likely bacteria or parasite for me.

 

[hixxy]

I am in disagreement. Chronic bacterial, viral or parasitic infections wreak havoc with the body. They may very well be the sole source of the symptoms known as chronic fatigue syndrome. I bolded syndrome because CFS is not a disease, it is a set of symptoms.

I agree with nanonug. There will NEVER be a single cause of CFS/ME discovered. Because there isn't one. For many CFS may very well be caused by a hidden bacteria infection throwing the immune system haywire. Just like it could easily be caused by any other kind of infection doing just the same.

Just because you've tried ever antibiotic under the sun doesn't mean you don't have a bacterial infection. Just means they may not have done the job!

 

[hixxy]

Thanks. I quickly read through it but I got the gist of it. I've been making kefir, fermented cabbage and was making kombucha for awhile and just assumed bacteria would replicate in the body like it does in a container.

Fwiw. I had to use bleach in my containers to completely eliminate the Kombucha scobies. Hot soapy water and using the dishwasher didn't kill this even over time. If I let anything sit in one of those containers I had a scoby.

That was a very strong bacteria yeast combo. I wonder if these two organisms join forces in our intestines. Maybe a yeast like s boulardi would help the bacteria stick.

Do you know if there's been anything more recent ? Or if they followed up on this ? It just hit me .. I wonder what some of the gluten sensitivity / celiac doctors like dr fasano says about this. Or the DAN doctors .. It's late for me but I'll look tomorrow.

Heaps,

The clarithromycin and metronadazole cleared my sinuses too. Mine are so stuffy 24/7 that it's hard to breath. It's back so it didn't last. I was too sick to research it but I remember reading that we can get parasites in our sinuses too. Gross ..

Tc .. X

The problem is that supplemental probiotic bacteria are unable to adhere to the intestine wall. Therefore your intestine natural cleansing mechanisms will gradually move them out the other end. So it doesn't matter how well these lovely little bacterium multiply, they aren't going to stay where you want them.

Human probiotics that are capable of adhering to the intestine wall, aren't as susceptible to this -- therefore they colonise.

 

[dannybex]

I agree with nanonug. There will NEVER be a single cause of CFS/ME discovered. Because there isn't one. For many CFS may very well be caused by a hidden bacteria infection throwing the immune system haywire. Just like it could easily be caused by any other kind of infection doing just the same.

Just because you've tried ever antibiotic under the sun doesn't mean you don't have a bacterial infection. Just means they may not have done the job!

It could also mean that other factors, like heavy metals, pesticides or other environmental toxins, etc., are interfering with immune function, making the infection chronic.

???

 

[heapsreal]

Immune modulators and poo transplants look like a good option. Good except for the bit where you put someone else's poo up yer bum, of course.

Im going to pass on the poo, lol.
Thanks for the link to beta glucans, im looking into other immune modulators abit more, more herbal type stuff as its more cost effective??

 

[hixxy]

It could also mean that other factors, like heavy metals, pesticides or other environmental toxins, etc., are interfering with immune function, making the infection chronic.

???

Of course. Nanonug's post was just in response to another that was pretty much saying that bacterial infection isn't a cause of CFS, but a symptom. All those things are potential causes.

I remember reading a fair few posts on these forums of people getting better with a certain set of antibiotics or antiparasitics or so on and replies along the lines of "the person mustn't have had CFS/ME" then.

 

[Lala]

I completely agree with Nanonung.

Number of bacterial infections damages our immune systems- chlamydia, borrelia, bartonella and many more.
Chlamydia pneumoniae for example lives in our white blood cells, using them as transporters wherever it needs to travel. It uses our own ATP, sucks directly our energy to live and reproduce. So how could it be possible not causing immune deficiency and chronic fatigue? These infections can not be treated by a single atb, you always need combination, because these bastards have different life stages with one of them often anaerobic, so you need several different kinds of medcs to eradicate them. With just one atb, one gets litlle bit better, than it stops working when bacteria transforms into another stage and one lately relapses.

I was on doxycyklin for 5 years nonstop along with another medcs and using strong probiotics was critical. I treated severe immune deficiency in both- cellular immunity and complement system.

 

[mellster]

WARNING: GROSS topic One thing I wanted to add to the gut dysbiosis regarding the ONE SYMPTOM that I think is questionable and totally subjective: the so-called "foul smelling stools". I mean when I was young and kicking I think it smelled much worse than sometimes now, then during the vegetarian craze the theory was popular that meat eaters poo smells so much worse bc of the rotting meat, and I believed it since my beefy roommates and myself always left the loo smelly, until I had to go one time after our vegetarian roommate just had used it and that destroyed that theory completely There are so many factors that influence the odor of your stools and IMO it tells you nothing about your health status, rather the consistency and color and even there you have to be careful with a quick diagnosis. Now one thing I will admit that I noticed consistently is that whenever I took nystatin some time ago (for candida which was some in my esophagus but supposedly hardly any in the stomach after a misguided course of Keflex ABx and acid reducers) pills with food I got bad smelling flatulence, but nobody on the medical front had a ready explanation for this.

 

[xchocoholic]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22247743

Here's the study on probiotics that I was referring too. I see some mistakes in the conclusion here tho.

These people had IBS with diarhea and some people who have chronic diarhea have an infection. Probiotics don't stand a chance against a strong army of bad bacteria. Even I tried this with h pylori and it didn't work.

Gluten is known to cause diarhea in celiacs too. So it could be that the gut is just too damaged to process anything. I had this and lost 10 lbs in a month. This is when I think I became a full blown celiac. I wonder how many of these people were celiacs ... biopsies and tests can be wrong. The people in my celiac support group can vouch for that. Most of them had normal biopsies and tests at first.

Also, VSL#3 contains dairy and our bodies aren't designed to digest dairy. It's a cows nutrient source for it's calves. You'd never see a Paleo hunting down a pregnant animal for it's milk ... lol ... eggs or babies, yes, milk no .. I'm know there's a more technical explanation about how where not supposed to consume dairy, but I'm not that awake yet .. lol ..

I just wonder if there are similiar problems with all the probiotics studies they tried before.

tc ... x

 

[Whit]

I've taken a lot of anti-biotics over the years. I took Tetracycline for 6 months. i've taken Xyfaxin, Cipro multiple times, and others. They didn't do anything, not even a little bit.

I think it is unlikely that CFS is caused by a bacterial infection.

 

[hixxy]

I've taken a lot of anti-biotics over the years. I took Tetracycline for 6 months. i've taken Xyfaxin, Cipro multiple times, and others. They didn't do anything, not even a little bit.

I think it is unlikely that CFS is caused by a bacterial infection.

Taking a lot of antibiotics doesn't exclude bacteria as a possibility. Ever heard of antibiotic resistant infections?

 

[Whit]

Yeah I'm just skeptical. It's good to be open minded to all possibilities though.

 

[Kathy]

Hi xks201,


I'm from Mexico hehe, so sorry to hear about your disease. I found some articles about some Mexican researchers that found that a common bacteria found in dogs, cows and many animals can cause a chronic disease, is leptospirosis. He also treats for many tropical diseases. He found that the cronic leptospira can be treated, and that the leptospira can simulate many diseases and that often many people gets ill and is bad diagnosed as other cronic disease like fibromialgia or some inmune diseases and often CFS.

This bacteria can be transmissed by urine blood or some other liquids. Some times is by water with rat's urine or dirty water. This a world wide disease and is very common. And of course, the treatment is doxy....


Regards.

Kathy

I've had CFS for 3 years. I've spent probably one hundred thousand dollars on treatments. I'm on every hormone you can possibly replace. I've ran multiple treatment protocols. I recommend you guys try double the dose of doxycycline standardly prescribed. 200mg 2 times a day.
The reason I got interested in this bacterial theory is because I had constant symptoms of bacterial infection. Burning/very foul smelling stool, acne, etc. I even had symptoms that Dr. Hyman (who is now dead) said were related to bacteria infection like joint inflammation and high blood pressure. I had gotten on high blood pressure meds and still it was out of control.

Even scarier, just like I had read from the work of Dr. Hyman, I was passing this CFS to girlfriends. They would come down with stomach problems and chronic fatigue. They would even say "I feel like I can't lift my body". These were girls that had extremely healthy immune systems before meeting me. Just like in the article of Dr. Hyman and his colleagues where patients would come in and the whole office would come down with CFS. He would treat them with IV or higher dose oral antibiotics and their CFS would disappear. Google dr. hyman and all the results. His first name is on the link below which may help.

Naturally we don't come across people who claim to have been cured of CFS.
I stumbled upon links to this guy http://articles.cnn.com/1997-02-19/...ions-sick-veterans-chemical-exposure?_s=PM:US

200mg doxycycline twice a day is helping me unlike nothing else really. And I have had stool tests done from regular labs which show no out of place bacteria. All my problems started when I went to Mexico.

 

[xks201]

Well you think of the Native Americans had when the Pilgrims came from the bugs they brought that the Native Americans were not used to...and then think about how today everyone is traveling from everywhere spreading everything we are not genetically immune to...and there you have it. Bacteria taking over.

 

[TheMoonIsBlue]

Xks, do you still think CFS is a bacterial infection?

Lactic acid poisoning? Mutaflor cures CFS?

Just asking.

Also, why do you say in one post you spent probably "one hundred thousand dollars" on treatment, when in another you say $50,000 (one of your qualifications you stated for writing your e-book on CFS) yet in another post you describe yourself as a poor college student?

Also, in another post you said that antibiotics never helped you when I recommended Xifaxan, this was when you were stating that our problems were all in our Guts..... Yet in an above post in this thread you say doxycycline is "helping me unlike nothing else really" ????????

I really would like to put two and two together to make four.