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Critical - multiple food allergies

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
Is MCAD supposed to have this near-instant, at-a-distance effect? Simply putting a drop of yogurt on your lips and mast cells degranulate right away in your throat? I am far from an expert on MCAD but this spooky action at a distance is really confusing to me.

It was just a thought. I'm not an expert. I just thought I'd mention it. Please do your own research, if you want to know more.
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
I don't understand this. Taking a H2 inhibitor is a sure fire way of increasing histamine levels in your body. Not as bad as a proton pump inhibitor, though. On top of that, your body wil also have to deal with partially digested food proteins, potentially leading to increased allergies and things such as small intestine bacterial overgrowth.

In my case, increasing methylation and taking diamine oxidase are the two tools I use to deal with histamine overload symptoms.

The H2 receptor antagonists are a class of drugs used to block the action of histamine on parietal cells in the stomach, decreasing the production of acid by these cells.

So yes and no. Less histamine, less acid in stomach, which decreases irritation and inflammation. But may cause ingestion problems and further histamine problems around the body. However it appears, at least in my case that inhibition of H2 in stomach causes less problems than by not inhibiting it. Lessor of two evils?

I also note that I never began taking Ranitidine until fairly late in the process, so none of my symptoms can be attributed to reducing H2.

BTW, isn't diamine oxidase a histamine inhibitor also, and thus possible leading to the exact same problems?
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
Rusty can't get Britts in the UK, very little here in the way of gluten free and then they think of a number and double it cost wise. The one I have is acceptable but not the best ingredient-wise, the last one I used they decided to add folic acid to???? so stopped using it.
I tried my making my own - that was a laugh:) back to shop bought, I sometimes buy organic rice cereal but usually can't be bothered in the mornings,and its very expensive too.
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
Is MCAD supposed to have this near-instant, at-a-distance effect? Simply putting a drop of yogurt on your lips and mast cells degranulate right away in your throat? I am far from an expert on MCAD but this spooky action at a distance is really confusing to me.

One thing I know is that stress causes mast cell degranulation. It is possible the fear of triggering a reaction is enough to set it off.
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
Rusty can't get Britts in the UK, very little here in the way of gluten free and then they think of a number and double it cost wise. The one I have is acceptable but not the best ingredient-wise, the last one I used they decided to add folic acid to???? so stopped using it.
I tried my making my own - that was a laugh:) back to shop bought, I sometimes buy organic rice cereal but usually can't be bothered in the mornings,and its very expensive too.

Sorry Mary. Got you confused with someone else who lives in Australia. Living in UK eh, there's your problem, lol. Yes the rice bread is expensive, but fairly heavy, so I use it less. Besides, my didactic preaching about failsafe aside, it is best to take it one step at a time. To follow failsafe is very difficult, especially for me/cfs patients. It took me a couple of months to sort out equivalents and where I could buy them. But it did give me a sense of purpose trying to track down the cheapest etc. Kept my mind off my health problems.

Regarding costs, I find that by not buying biscuits and drinks and sweets, etc, I end up spending less on food, even though I am spending more on bread and milk (only use organic). I should also only eat organic eggs. Some producers are now feeding their chickens dyes to color egg yolks.

Still I recommend going to the failsafe site, there will be UK equivalents. You can also order the Elimination Handbook from the Prince Alfred Hospital. Not expensive. They aren't in it to make money, just cover costs.

It's quite remarkable that a country like Australia, with access to so many whole foods, should have almost everything tainted with additives.

There is a good theory that the additives buildup in our bodies lead to the intolerances of the natural food chemicals, and until those additives and their effects are negated, our intolerances will not improve. The older you are, the higher the levels and the longer it will take to restore (that is if no other factor is involved).
 
Messages
90
One thing I know is that stress causes mast cell degranulation. It is possible the fear of triggering a reaction is enough to set it off.

adreno: whilst eating or trying food, am totally relaxed, meditate and have turned to bhuddism
Reciting bhuddist mantras which I found very useful in terms of not allowing stress thoughts
am seeing food as a life saving experience right now, which it is. When I react, I go on to the next
one hoping. I don't see food as a threat nor do I see my responses as the enemy.

I realize that stress and maladaptive behavior would worsen symptoms.

I also know that stress can trigger but not the cause.

Other than emotional responses there could be physiological stress
such as infections, or environmental.

Good point though.
 
Messages
90
Is MCAD supposed to have this near-instant, at-a-distance effect? Simply putting a drop of yogurt on your lips and mast cells degranulate right away in your throat? I am far from an expert on MCAD but this spooky action at a distance is really confusing to me.

nanoNug: good point there too. Could be both allergic reaction and some instances MCD?
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
The H2 receptor antagonists [...] Less histamine, less acid in stomach

No, it will be less stomach acid but way more histamine!

Enterochromaffin-like cells (ECL cells) are stimulated by (mostly) gastrin to release histamine. Gastrin is stimulated by food in the stomach but inhibited by presence of acid. If the parietal cells don't release acid, gastrin levels just rise. With higher levels of gastrin, more histamine is release. Therefore, what the H2 inhibitor is doing is forcing higher levels of histamine due to lack of feedback inhibition by acid.

isn't diamine oxidase a histamine inhibitor also, and thus possible leading to the exact same problems?

Diamine oxidase is an enzyme responsible for the degradation of histamine. Some people take it with food to help degrade food amines. I take it on an empty stomach in the hope of getting it into the blood stream and degrade plasma histamine.
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
No, it will be less stomach acid but way more histamine!

Enterochromaffin-like cells (ECL cells) are stimulated by (mostly) gastrin to release histamine. Gastrin is stimulated by food in the stomach but inhibited by presence of acid. If the parietal cells don't release acid, gastrin levels just rise. With higher levels of gastrin, more histamine is release. Therefore, what the H2 inhibitor is doing is forcing higher levels of histamine due to lack of feedback inhibition by acid.



Diamine oxidase is an enzyme responsible for the degradation of histamine. Some people take it with food to help degrade food amines. I take it on an empty stomach in the hope of getting it into the blood stream and degrade plasma histamine.

Not sure if you are suggesting an alternative to what I am doing at the moment. If I don't take the H2 inhibitor, I can't digest food. My stomach is full in the morning. In addition the reflux would rip my throat out. I have a hiatus hernia which doesn't help. I also won't be able to sleep without the rani.

As I said, all of my symptoms began more than a decade before I began taking Rani. They have not really worsened since taking it, but rather improved considerably. I would love to be off Rani for the reasons you stated.

I am already on the methylation protocol but not taking the DO. I will give it a try, but from what you are saying it treats plasma histamine.
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
Not sure if you are suggesting an alternative to what I am doing at the moment.

I might, but I need a little bit more info.

If I don't take the H2 inhibitor, I can't digest food.

This is the opposite of what I would expect. Acid helps food get digested. No acid helps food stay in the stomach.

In addition the reflux would rip my throat out.

Two questions:

  1. Do you have biopsy-confirmed gastritis?
  2. Have you been tested for Helicobacter pylori infection?

I have a hiatus hernia which doesn't help.

Indeed, it doesn't. Have you thought about surgery? Personally, I would not want to just "manage it"!

I am already on the methylation protocol but not taking the DO. I will give it a try, but from what you are saying it treats plasma histamine.

Diamine oxidase's primary function is to get rid of histamine in food. However, I am using the enzyme in a different manner as my problem is not associated with exogenous histamine.
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
xrunner: I am amazed at your having improved from such a level of food sensitivity. I think I might investigate these QLink pendants! There seems to be different products. Are they all pretty much the same? Would a bracelet serve the same function as a pendant? If only I could have NAET at home I would give that a try too.

Dainty: I too am interested in what you have to say. I have been reacting to ALL foods for close to a year now. I simply eat and suffer because I have to, but the reactions are gradually getting worse.

My decline to this level of sensitivity for foods was gradual with a few sudden major worsenings.

I think the bracelet and the pendant work the same.
Naet is not rocket science. You can try it at home. Just hold the allergen with one hand laying down on your front whilst somebody else massages/stimulates both sides of your spine.
This is repeated three times. First after inhaling and holding your breath, then exhale and hold your breath and thirdly by panting like a puppy.
Then you repeat that again by holding the allergen with your hand against your forehead.
After that hold the allergen in your hand for about 15-20 minutes whilst relaxing. At the end rub your hands. After that avoid any contact with the allergen for at least 24 hours.
There are other twists but those are the basics.
Alternatively you can place the allergen in your navel while tapping relevant meridian points. may be worth a try.


xrunner: thanks for your input. The MCS also worsened since the severe reactions to foods. I will look at QLink, but can't afford the NAET, both
financially and healthwise.

:
I had bought the pendant hoping it would help with fatigue but I could not wear it. It made me kind of hyper and uncomfortable and thought it might be something psychological. So it ended up in a drawer and I forgot about it.
When the MCS later hit me, my doc mentioned that things that could help were usually things that would calm the autonomic nervous system/brain stem possibly acupuncture and other I don't remember.

One day at the peak of my crisis, and feeling quite desperate, as I was clearing that drawer I saw the pendant and the accompanying leaflet where it mentioned something about its actions on the nervous system.
That connected with what my doc had said so I wore it that night. For the the first time in weeks I could sleep but the next day I woke up shattered, all my muscles feeling like jelly and feeling weird. So I took it off. The following day, I tried to eat and had a really horrible reaction so I wore it again. Within half an hour I could feel the reaction subsiding. I took it off and felt it worsening and so back on again and felt easier. I tried this a few times as I couldn't believe it could do that.

Note that reactions did not went away, they were just more bearable and which it allowed me to eat.
Also note that I did not have tingling rather palpitations, seizures and feeling like I was going to die.
Now that I'm relatively well, I can't tell the difference between wearing it and not, it doesn't seem to do anything.

All the best
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
If its any help to anyone for food reactions (obviously not for those serious enough to need medical help) Break/spear advocate tri salts and vit c every hour until the reaction subsides, I used this method after the last attack I had and it does work.
 
Messages
90
If its any help to anyone for food reactions (obviously not for those serious enough to need medical help) Break/spear advocate tri salts and vit c every hour until the reaction subsides, I used this method after the last attack I had and it does work.

Yes, the only salt I can tolerate right now is Himalayan Salts, not Vit C though.

I also read that bicarbonate of soda can help specially during anaphylaxis. Need
to read more on that.

I came across this protocol which looks interesting, based on supps such as TMG:

http://restoreunity.org/natural_method_antihistamine.htm
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
I might, but I need a little bit more info.

This is the opposite of what I would expect. Acid helps food get digested. No acid helps food stay in the stomach.

I have read other of other posters with the same complaint, so it is not uncommon on this forum.



Two questions:

  1. Do you have biopsy-confirmed gastritis?
  2. Have you been tested for Helicobacter pylori infection?

Indeed, it doesn't. Have you thought about surgery? Personally, I would not want to just "manage it"!

I was treated for Helicobacter and ulcer, then cleared of it by biopsy, at the same time they should have checked for gastritis I guess. At time still had problems of slow clearing of stomach and reflux. Not sure if this is definitive, or it can come back. I do not have an ulcer, and I read that many people have H without ill effect.

I recall talking to the biopsy people about my problems and they indicated it was a recognized issue. They did not know the cause and could suggest no treatment.

Surgery would not solve bloating/slow clearing issues which in itself prevents me from sleeping, and I have read of quite a few dissatisfied stories with the surgery.
 

hixxy

Senior Member
Messages
1,229
Location
Australia
Is MCAD supposed to have this near-instant, at-a-distance effect? Simply putting a drop of yogurt on your lips and mast cells degranulate right away in your throat? I am far from an expert on MCAD but this spooky action at a distance is really confusing to me.

This is precisely how I react as well. IT is MCS. I am certain of it. These kinds of reactions developed when I hit the spreading stage of MCS.
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
I was treated for Helicobacter and ulcer, then cleared of it by biopsy, at the same time they should have checked for gastritis I guess.

So, you had an upper endoscopy and your stomach was fine? No ulcers and no H. pylori?

If you had gastritis, I am pretty sure they would have told you. Did they tell you to continue to take an antacid medication?

At time still had problems of slow clearing of stomach and reflux.

So, you still had problems after clearing the H. pylori infection?

Not sure if this is definitive, or it can come back.

In my case, it took me a year and four rounds of antibiotics to get rid of it. The thing might still come back, though! I also had to take antibiotics to get rid of bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine.

I recall talking to the biopsy people about my problems and they indicated it was a recognized issue. They did not know the cause and could suggest no treatment.

Are you talking about gastroparesis?

Surgery would not solve bloating/slow clearing issues

OK, bloating is a different beast. Have you been tested for bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine or parasites? Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth may cause both bloating and gastroparesis (in this latter case, if it slows down motility.)
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
Messages
1,200
Location
Mackay, Aust
So, you had an upper endoscopy and your stomach was fine? No ulcers and no H. pylori?

If you had gastritis, I am pretty sure they would have told you. Did they tell you to continue to take an antacid medication?



So, you still had problems after clearing the H. pylori infection?



In my case, it took me a year and four rounds of antibiotics to get rid of it. The thing might still come back, though! I also had to take antibiotics to get rid of bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine.



Are you talking about gastroparesis?



OK, bloating is a different beast. Have you been tested for bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine or parasites? Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth may cause both bloating and gastroparesis (in this latter case, if it slows down motility.)


Yes to the problems after clearance of Helico. I recall now they suggested going gluten-free (I tested negative for celiac), but positive to an allergy test to gluten. When I went off gluten my gall bladder vomitting episodes disappeared and I did get some relief with bloating and reflux, but other food intolerances built up and bloating and reflux increased. Oddly enough when I went back onto gluten my gall bladder episodes came back. Ultrasound showed stones. Went back to gluten free and haven't had an issue there.

As soon as you mentioned small intestine halfway thru your post, I realised that was one avenue that had possibilities, then you asked the question yourself. Thanks for your concise responses, btw. I went a little post crazy, yesterday - went till three am, then couldn't get to sleep, before I had to go to work (just a couple of hours) - so I was a little wired.

If I have small intestinal aliens, do you have any thoughts on why would rani helps? I have made an appt with GP to investigate further, though I am a little worried he may not be all that interested or informed. I am a little puzzled that this wasn't investigated when I complained about continuing symptoms to the endoscopy people (not sure if there is a division of work rule between them and colonoscopy mob, lol).
 

nanonug

Senior Member
Messages
1,709
Location
Virginia, USA
If I have small intestinal aliens, do you have any thoughts on why would rani helps?

To be honest, I am still at a loss in understanding how an H2 inhibitor would help. However, if you have bloating issues it would probably be a good idea to suspect either small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or parasitic infection. Both have the potential to cause bloating. One possibility would be to blast your bowel with high-dosage rifaximin for two weeks and see if the bloating goes way. If you tend to have constipation, neomycin in addition to rifaximin would be warranted. If treatment with antibiotics doesn't help, then going after parasites would probably be a good idea.