Are Folate supplements necessary to take with B12 if Red Cell Folate levels are high?

[adreno]

Taking the Swanson wouldn't be any different from my idea of taking them all separately, in active forms. The only thing different is the B3 form.

I don't want to take B complexes with high doses of inactive forms any more. I believe it is very costly having to convert all that vitamin in the body.

 

[axx]

Adreno, do you think it is necessary to take B supplements that are much higher than the RDI? I understand with B12 that it is needed in high doses due to the problems with absorption that many people experience, but surely the other B requirements can be met by diet? Am I mistaken? Perhaps some of the other B vitamins are more like B12 or are difficult to find in sufficient quantities in food.

 

[hixxy]

The RDIs are typically inadequate for optimal health. Also, what is the quality of your food like? The function of your gut? Your ability to metabolise these vitamins into their active forms?

hixxy

 

[adreno]

With all the absorption issues, and increased energy demands seen in ME, I do believe RDA doses are insufficient. I would even prefer to take all my Bs sublingually.

 

[hixxy]

I've been thinking of trying transdermal b complex. Not entirely sure how effective it is tho.

I was taking 600mg magnesium / day for months and it wasn't until I started using some magnesium oil that I got a big hit.

 

[axx]

That's interesting. I haven't read much about transdermal supplements so I can't offer any advice on that.

I did find another b complexthat looks quite good with some of the superior bioavailable forms in it:http://www.wellnessresources.com/products/super_b_complex.php. A drawback though is that it has calcium folinate instead of methylfolate, but this is still better than FA.

 

[hixxy]

Transdermal b complex might also solve the phosphorylation - dephosphorylation - rephosphorylation problem that was being discussed in this thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?17179-Intracellular-magnesium-defiency-and-vitamin-B6-(and-or-B2)-deficiency-in-ME-CFS

hixxy

 

[axx]

Is it really necessary to take a b complex in addition to B12?

I have quite low blood pressure and am nervous about taking B3 niacin/niacinamide.

If I just take the B12, fish oil (with A & D), magnesium, methylfolate and have some potassium on hand if needed, wouldn't this be enough? I have a really good diet and get plenty of vitamins and minerals, including calcium and zinc.

 

[hixxy]

B12 and Folate aren't the only b vitamins involved in the various aspects of methylation.

You need B6 and B2 which are common CFS deficencies involved in methylation. B3 is also a cofactors in so many things it's ridiculous.

Just search around fr a really low dose b complex at least. If it has a small amount of folic acid, just take your 5MTHF away from the folic acid.

Also, when you start methylating, your body's demand for those b complex vitamins will increase -- not just potassium and magnesium.

Same for trace minerals.

 

[adreno]

Hixxy is right, you need all the B vitamins. I don't think a moderate amount of B3 will lower your blood pressure.

 

[axx]

Thank you Hixxy. Is this one too low dose? http://www.iherb.com/MegaFood-DailyF...0-Tablets/3992

How about this one? http://www.iherb.com/MegaFood-DailyFoods-Un-Stress-90-Tablets/4080 - it looks like a better option than the first, however I am nervous about taking all those herbs.

Like you said I would take the 5MTHF in addition to the folate contained in these.

 

[Pea]

What about the Inosotol question - is it important?

 

[adreno]

If you take lecithin, you will get some inositol from that.

 

[maddietod]

2. That depends on which "take" on treating methylation you are following. Fredds or Rich's. To start with, adenosylb12 is probably not that necessary even on Fredd's protocol. Rich's procotol doesn't use it at all. As for genes. MethylB12 can be intolerable for some people with COMT gene mutations. This is where hydroxob12 is necessary. This has nothing to do with adenosylb12.

hixxy

Hixxy, do you know which mutations are involved in this? Or can you point me to a thread?

Madie

 

[nanonug]

That Metabolic Maintenance B Complex is a winner!

They don't say where they are getting their methylfolate. Is it really just pure L-methylfolate or does it also contain D-methylfolate?

 

[nanonug]

I have quite low blood pressure

This rings a bell! Do you also suffer from chronic rhinosinusitis, headaches and tachycardia, by any chance?

 

[axx]

This rings a bell! Do you also suffer from chronic rhinosinusitis, headaches and tachycardia, by any chance?

Interesting question.
chronic rhinosinusitis - not chronic no, but the only time i really seem to get sick is when my sinuses are infected
headaches - occasionally, but I can usually explain why (e.g. dehydration). usually very mild, only rarely do I get migraines
tachycardia - i'm not sure. I have felt tightness in my chest, especially where my left breast is and this is one of the symptoms that concerns me most. Sometimes I feel really mild palpitations. I'm not sure how to get this tested/diagnosed, it is difficult to explain how it feels.

 

[nanonug]

chronic rhinosinusitis - not chronic no, but the only time i really seem to get sick is when my sinuses are infected

What about constant postnasal drip?

tachycardia - i'm not sure. I have felt tightness in my chest, especially where my left breast is and this is one of the symptoms that concerns me most. Sometimes I feel really mild palpitations.

I have this same exact set of symptoms, including the pain under the left breast! By the way, a recent echocardiogram showed everything is fine with my heart.

The reason I asked those questions is my belief that all the symptoms are tied together to some form of histamine overload. When I was younger, my blood pressure was usually around 90/60. Now that I am older and fatter, my blood pressure is still a very normal 120/80! A good deal of the stuff that I currently take is aimed at lowering histamine.

Here is an interesting paper explaining the effects too much histamine have on the body (including cardiac arrest):

Histamine and histamine intolerance

 

[axx]

I remember doing a quiz recently regarding histamines and the symptoms didn't really resonate with me so I don't think this is an issue of mine, but I could be mistaken. I will go back and read the paper you linked to and do a bit more research. It may be worth noting that I do get hayfever in the spring though.

On the topic of Red Cell Folate being high, the following article explains how this could be related to a genetic mutation whereby both formylated and methylated folate forms are in the red cell folate, rather than just methylated

 

[axx]

Here is the link: http://www.pnas.org/content/95/22/13217.full.