For those who get GI trouble with magnesium

[Ocean]

Right now I'm trying to take vitamin D which normally causes me a lot of problems, one of which I think is magnesium deficiency. But I haven't been able to tolerate oral magnesium and I find the transdermal oil to be very messy, as well as irritating to my skin, so even though I use it daily I have trouble using as much as it seems I need.

I found two possible solutions in doing some research last night on what's work for people. One person suggested using a powdered magnesium in water and slowly sipping it throughout the day. Somehow this supposedly prevented GI trouble. Another idea was slow release magnesium, which is pretty pricey. Has anyone tried either of these approaches? Or has anyone found some other way to tolerate oral magnesium? In the past I used a capsule and even when I dumped out almost all the powder in the capsule I had trouble with diarrhea so I don't think lowering my dose and slowly building up will work unless I can first find a dose or method of taking it that my body can tolerate. Thank you.

 

[silicon]

there are many forms of magnesium. Magnesium glycinate is allegedly gentler on the gut. I sometimes take a product from Enzymatic Therapy called Krebs Magnesium-Potassium Chelates, which also seems easier on the gut (although it also contains potassium, which you might not be interested in taking). I know that Carolyn Dean has written about magnesium, and even has a book on the subject.

 

[Sushi]

Some forms of oral magnesium cause more GI reactions than others. I can't remember which--though it would probably be easy to google. I take Magnesium citrate and it does affect the GI tract (which I want!). It is also possible that the forms that don't affect the GI tract much are not well absorbed--another problem.

Have you tried epsom salts baths? I don't know how much magnesium you absorb from them, but some.

Best wishes with this,
Sushi

P.S. Cross post with silicon!

 

[L'engle]

There's a magnesium cream available from some brands. It might be less irritating and messy than the oil. I'm going to order some myself and see how it goes.

 

[perchance dreamer]

I use Optimag 125 from Xymogen and have zero digestive effects. It's a glycinate/malate form.

 

[Ocean]

Thanks everyone. I took mag. taurate and in the past tried other forms but don't remember which. I like the cream idea, I'm definitely going to look that up now, as well as some of the other forms, maybe try the glycinate next. The epsom salt baths are too much work for me as I don't take a bath/shower daily anymore and it also takes a lot of scrubbing to get the residue off my body. The spray is that way too. It's sticky and gets on my clothes and I don't want to have to wash it off daily since I'm not able to shower every day. L'engle I'd love to hear how the cream is if you try it.

No one has any thoughts on the slow release magnesium? Thanks everyone.

ETA:
I checked on Amazon and people were still reporting diarrhea even with the other forms so I'm not sure if I should try one or not. Maybe will still give glycenate a try if the sipping on magnesium in my water, which I'm trying today, doesn't work out.

 

[SJB944]

Dr Myhill suggests taking it by injection. I inject every few days, which bypasses any GI issues.

 

[Ocean]

Dr Myhill suggests taking it by injection. I inject every few days, which bypasses any GI issues.

Do you know how I'd go about getting this done? Does it need to be prescribed or how does it work? Also I am mostly housebound so I'd have to do it myself or have someone come to the house to do it if it were a regular thing.

 

[Sushi]

Do you know how I'd go about getting this done? Does it need to be prescribed or how does it work? Also I am mostly housebound so I'd have to do it myself or have someone come to the house to do it if it were a regular thing.

It has to be prescribed (you would get it from a compounding pharmacy) but it is easy to self-inject. I know many who do so.

Sushi

 

[RustyJ]

Hi Ocean. I had similar troubles with most forms of magnesium. Eventually I settled on Chelated Magnesium. I'm not sure why, but I suspect because it was better tolerated in online comments. I did start off on a low dose. I still had GI trouble for three or four days, but it eventually diminished. Each time I increased dosage, I had the same problem. I think you have to go through the problems till they lessen. I now take 200mg Carlson Chelated Mag twice a day, without problems. I should add, I had exactly the same reactions with Vit D, but now take 10,000IU a day without any trouble.

 

[Ocean]

So Rusty you slowly built up on the vitamin D too? In the past with mag. taurate my body never got accustomed to it but it may have just been that form. I tried having a bit in my water the other day but I got horrible stomach pains all night, so I won't be trying that again. When I get up the nerve I'll order a new kind, chelated or glycinate and try again. Not for a while though. The stomach troubles are just so bad and end up affecting my sleep a lot too.

 

[RustyJ]

So Rusty you slowly built up on the vitamin D too? In the past with mag. taurate my body never got accustomed to it but it may have just been that form. I tried having a bit in my water the other day but I got horrible stomach pains all night, so I won't be trying that again. When I get up the nerve I'll order a new kind, chelated or glycinate and try again. Not for a while though. The stomach troubles are just so bad and end up affecting my sleep a lot too.

Ocean, I did. Not at the same time as building up Mg though. And I only take both vits with meals. Same deal with Vit D as with Mg, very slowly... I put up with stomach problems for three or four days then upped the dose. The stomach problems were rather violent, from memory. I had similar problems with Zinc (as well as nausea).

I tried the water thing but dropped it after a while. Perhaps it speeds up absorption and puts too much strain on the the stomach or other organs.

But of course it's up to you and how much further distress you can take. I can't really compare your condition to mine, in terms of severity. When you are suffering all the time, then it is extremely difficult to face even the slightest additional distress. All I am trying to say is that for me, the stomach troubles from the vits improved after three or four days. Once you get through one cycle and you know what to expect, it gets a little easier. I think the cycles got easier also.

I think you'll find most me/cfs patients suffer the same distress with mg and vit D as you did.

Another thing I think is important. I waited till I was in a relatively stronger period healthwise before I attempted a protocol. That coupled with a measure of excitement at trying something new and the prospect of a cure perhaps helps ward off some of the distress, for a time. I think this is the effect that many me/cfs patients experience when they try a new protocol and may be a contributing factor for the positive placebo results so often recorded.

Vit D is by far the best med I take. I think I could throw everything else away and not notice any difference. Sometimes I think it doesn't matter how many vitamins we take to address deficiencies, because there is a processing problem. Maybe instead of taking precursors, we should be taking downstream compounds to bypass the processing.

I've droned on a bit here. It's difficult to offer such advice without sounding didactic, so sorry for that. I hope it helps in some way though.

 

[Ocean]

Ocean, I did. Not at the same time as building up Mg though. And I only take both vits with meals. Same deal with Vit D as with Mg, very slowly... I put up with stomach problems for three or four days then upped the dose. The stomach problems were rather violent, from memory. I had similar problems with Zinc (as well as nausea).

I tried the water thing but dropped it after a while. Perhaps it speeds up absorption and puts too much strain on the the stomach or other organs.

But of course it's up to you and how much further distress you can take. I can't really compare your condition to mine, in terms of severity. When you are suffering all the time, then it is extremely difficult to face even the slightest additional distress. All I am trying to say is that for me, the stomach troubles from the vits improved after three or four days. Once you get through one cycle and you know what to expect, it gets a little easier. I think the cycles got easier also.

I think you'll find most me/cfs patients suffer the same distress with mg and vit D as you did.

Another thing I think is important. I waited till I was in a relatively stronger period healthwise before I attempted a protocol. That coupled with a measure of excitement at trying something new and the prospect of a cure perhaps helps ward off some of the distress, for a time. I think this is the effect that many me/cfs patients experience when they try a new protocol and may be a contributing factor for the positive placebo results so often recorded.

Vit D is by far the best med I take. I think I could throw everything else away and not notice any difference. Sometimes I think it doesn't matter how many vitamins we take to address deficiencies, because there is a processing problem. Maybe instead of taking precursors, we should be taking downstream compounds to bypass the processing.

I've droned on a bit here. It's difficult to offer such advice without sounding didactic, so sorry for that. I hope it helps in some way though.

No, actually it's very helpful. You're exactly right that when you're already struggling a lot any setback can be too much. It's hard for to lose a day or two to a supplement when I already have such small amounts of functionality and my balance is so precarious without adding anything new. I really want to be able to take the D and for me I think that means being able to get enough magnesium too. I think for now I am going to just try to get as much as I can with the spray until I feel stronger enough to try a couple other forms of magnesium and give them a bit of time to see if I develop better tolerance over a few days or so. With the D I'm starting slow at only 400 a day on the days I do take it. I didn't realize many struggle with tolerating these things too because I just haven't heard about it I guess.

Can you say any more about this "Sometimes I think it doesn't matter how many vitamins we take to address deficiencies, because there is a processing problem. Maybe instead of taking precursors, we should be taking downstream compounds to bypass the processing."?

Thank you, Rusty.

 

[RustyJ]

Can you say any more about this "Sometimes I think it doesn't matter how many vitamins we take to address deficiencies, because there is a processing problem. Maybe instead of taking precursors, we should be taking downstream compounds to bypass the processing."?

Thank you, Rusty.

I am only conjecturing. For some there is a processing issue, so it's not a matter of increasing the dosage of the vitamin. Eg, the B12 protocol is an attempt to boost cofactors to enhance glutathione production, however if the downstream product of glutathione was available it might overcome many issues me/cfs patients face in trying to adopt the B12 protocol. I think there was a recent thread on this.

For some it is clear that by boosting B12, glutathione production is raised, but even in these people who experience improvement, only a few say they are cured. For others it seems to require boosting glutathione itself is required, rather than B12. Are these two different approaches to the same problem?

There are several ways to be deficient. One, low availability - it's lacking in our diet. Two, low absorption - stomach problems. Three, lacking cofactors to enhance breakdown. Four is that the vitamins are being consumed by disease processes. We try to bypass One by taking supplements, Two by using sublingual vits. Three is the hardest to overcome and unless there is rigorous testing and ongoing testing during treatment, I think most of what we try is simply an educated guess.

I can't afford such testing, and I have little confidence in the accuracy of the available tests here in Australia. And so it is very difficult for me to pinpoint at which point or points the process is breaking down. Obviously, with point Four, you can only hope to alleviate the symptoms caused by the deficiencies, but the disease will continue to affect us.

I try things 100% - it's not worth all the aggravation to be half-hearted about each protocol. One day one might help greatly. I think the most important thing is to not lie down and accept the illness. Keep fighting. Keep trying things. Always be skeptical of those who believe they know better (ha!). It is a remarkable quality of me/cfs patients that they do not lie down and accept the illness; they keep trying things. Honest psychological profiles of most patients would find the most uplifting, courageous stories.

 

[Ocean]

I am only conjecturing. For some there is a processing issue, so it's not a matter of increasing the dosage of the vitamin. Eg, the B12 protocol is an attempt to boost cofactors to enhance glutathione production, however if the downstream product of glutathione was available it might overcome many issues me/cfs patients face in trying to adopt the B12 protocol. I think there was a recent thread on this.

For some it is clear that by boosting B12, glutathione production is raised, but even in these people who experience improvement, only a few say they are cured. For others it seems to require boosting glutathione itself is required, rather than B12. Are these two different approaches to the same problem?

There are several ways to be deficient. One, low availability - it's lacking in our diet. Two, low absorption - stomach problems. Three, lacking cofactors to enhance breakdown. Four is that the vitamins are being consumed by disease processes. We try to bypass One by taking supplements, Two by using sublingual vits. Three is the hardest to overcome and unless there is rigorous testing and ongoing testing during treatment, I think most of what we try is simply an educated guess.

I can't afford such testing, and I have little confidence in the accuracy of the available tests here in Australia. And so it is very difficult for me to pinpoint at which point or points the process is breaking down. Obviously, with point Four, you can only hope to alleviate the symptoms caused by the deficiencies, but the disease will continue to affect us.

I try things 100% - it's not worth all the aggravation to be half-hearted about each protocol. One day one might help greatly. I think the most important thing is to not lie down and accept the illness. Keep fighting. Keep trying things. Always be skeptical of those who believe they know better (ha!). It is a remarkable quality of me/cfs patients that they do not lie down and accept the illness; they keep trying things. Honest psychological profiles of most patients would find the most uplifting, courageous stories.

Thank you so much. You explained this so clearly. I have a lot of trouble understanding a lot of medical info on this site but this I understood! I don't know which of the 4 is my trouble, maybe all 4. I know I react quickly and strongly to most meds and supplements. With vitamin D I start getting heavy bruises by my 2nd dose of 400 mg and this happens every time I take vitamin D, also with certain antibiotics too. I don't know what that indicates if anything about what might be at the root of my problem, but I too will keep trying. The supplements that seem to give me some benefit but also cause problems I especially want to try to figure out how to tolerate them. Right now D is one of those and I also liked some of what acetyl l-carnitine and l-carnitine did but had trouble tolerating those as well. I'll keep trying slowly and see if I can get over the hump with some of these things. Thank you so much for your thoughts.