New biomarker test for ME/CFS: NADPH measurement at Riordan Clinic

[adreno]

Biochemical effects of Ribose and nADH Therapy in children with Autism
http://www.la-press.com/redirect_fi...rapy-in-Children-with-Autism.pdf&fileType=pdf

The study found that both NADH and ribose can increase NADPH levels, with NADH being the most effective. Since NADH is converted to NAD before being phosphorylated to NADP (and later hydrolyzed to NADPH), maybe taking NAD would be just as effective. It's certainly cheaper. The advantage of NADH over NAD is that it would donate ATP.

 

[adreno]

NAD is turning out to be really interesting:

"During chronic CNS inflammation, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) concentrations are altered by (T helper) Th1-derived cytokines through the coordinated induction of both indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase (IDO) and the ADP cyclase CD38 in pathogenic microglia and lymphocytes. While IDO activation may keep auto-reactive T cells in check, hyper-activation of IDO can leave neuronal CNS cells starving for extracellular sources of NAD. Existing data indicate that glia may serve critical functions as an essential supplier of NAD to neurons during times of stress. Administration of pharmacological doses of non-tryptophan NAD precursors ameliorates pathogenesis in animal models of MS. Animal models of MS involve artificially stimulated autoimmune attack of myelin by experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) or by viral-mediated demyelination using Thieler's murine encephalomyelitis virus (TMEV). The Wld(S) mouse dramatically resists razor axotomy mediated axonal degeneration. This resistance is due to increased efficiency of NAD biosynthesis that delays stress-induced depletion of axonal NAD and ATP."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19149604/

 

[nanonug]

NAD is turning out to be really interesting

Thanks for all the info on NAD. I am going to order it and take it to see if it helps.

 

[adreno]

Thanks for all the info on NAD. I am going to order it and take it to see if it helps.

Great, I will order it too. So we have a small n=2 study going on

 

[SOC]

Shall we make it n=3? I'll order some, too.

Any idea what a "pharmacolgical dose" is?

 

[adreno]

Source Naturals has one too:

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Coenzymated-B-3-Sublingual-25-mg-60-Tablets/1039

I'm going to start with 1 tab daily, split in 2 doses. If that goes well, I'll increase to 2 tabs. I believe that should be plenty.

 

[kaffiend]

Just my experience, but I found sublingual NADH supplements to be very short-acting and couldn't be taken on consecutive days without experiencing a severe crash.

 

[Pea]

Has anyone tried the NAD yet?

 

[nanonug]

Has anyone tried the NAD yet?

I have been taking it for a few days now. Cannot say that it has made any difference.

 

[SOC]

I just started Equilibrant, so I'm waiting to settle in with that before I start NAD. I do have it, though, ready to go as soon as is reasonable.

 

[adreno]

Still waiting for mine to arrive.

 

[hixxy]

Just my experience, but I found sublingual NADH supplements to be very short-acting and couldn't be taken on consecutive days without experiencing a severe crash.

I've found this same thing happens with anything that can give a sudden, significant burst of energy. It's like your body burns through all it's stores rapidly and leaves you in a depleted state.

hixxy

 

[Guido den Broeder]

Hi Inester,

I am not sure there is a supplement to increase NADPH, but others may know more. I was told that this was typical for low mitochondrial function (if I remember correctly).

As to the quote, not sure what the relation of NADPH oxidase activation is in relation to levels of NADPH. We need someone with more knowledge here! Also decreasing the level of proinflammatory cytokines by down regulating brain macrophage-like cells sounds like a trade off. We don't want the inflammation but we do need the action of macrophages (not sure what macrophage-like cells are) in order to go after pathogens.

This is one of the balances doctors try to achieve when giving GcMAF--it activates macrophages and this produces inflammation, so they try to give a low enough dose to activate enough macrophages to do the work, but not to activate too many which can make inflammation worse. They also give other things to lower inflammation.

Best,
Sushi

Best,
Sushi

What would the effect of Methylene Blue as a supplement be?

 

[August59]

Could agmatine have a positive impact on NADPH for us? It appears it has interaction with aldosterone somewhere in the chain, but this stuff is so far over my head!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11125020

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10785653

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10785653

 

[SOC]

Has anyone tried the NAD yet?

I started NAD (today is the 3rd day) and I'm surprised to find that so far I have noticed a significant positive effect. I feel like I have more energy, but since it's early days I'm not deliberately changing my activity level. Want to make sure the effect lasts before I go messing with an energy envelope that works.

More surprisingly, my HR is noticeably changed. My HR upon waking has dropped steadily from 88 bpm to 78 bpm.
At the same time, my HR supine after being up and about for 5-10 mins has locked in at 104 bpm where previously it varied on a daily basis between 100 bpm and 116 bpm.

This could be a data blip, or it may be related to NAD but not lasting, or it may be the effect of Equilibrant (I started that 6 weeks ago at a low dose). Thought it was interesting enough to share, though.

 

[Enid]

Thanks Rich - all your hard work and knowledge - what sets this crazy cascade of pathological events will be so nice to know one day too.

 

[Skyline]

How did this NAD / NADPH experiment go? Did anyone get any positive results from it?

 

[adreno]

How did this NAD / NADPH experiment go? Did anyone get any positive results from it?

I still find NAD helpful. Then again, I seem to prefer all the B vitamins in their active form. B3 seems very important for balancing methylation.

 

[maryb]

I know the B vits are better taken together rather than in isolation, I would like to try this form of B3 any suggestions for sublingual mixes in this coenzymated form?

 

[adreno]

I know the B vits are better taken together rather than in isolation, I would like to try this form of B3 any suggestions for sublingual mixes in this coenzymated form?

I take all my B vits individually, but more or less the same time. MB12, ADB12, 5MTHF and NAD sublingually before breakfast. R5P, P5P, pantethine and biotin with breakfast.