Is Yasko's Nutrigenomics Panel enough?

[nanonug]

Having translated 23andme results to Yasko's Nutrigenomics Panel format, I decided to go down the rabbit hole and investigate additional biochemical pathway screw ups. Two things became very clear very fast:

1. Yasko's methylation map is quite simplified. A slightly more complicated but still simplified would be this one-carbon metabolism diagram.
2. For many of the genes described in Yasko's Nutrigenomics, there are a bunch more mutations than the ones tested. For example, for CBS, there are a bunch of mutations that downregulate the enzyme's activity. The data on omim clearly illustrates this.

Given just these two observations, it would seem to me that Yasko's Nutrigenomics Panel is nothing but the tip of the iceberg. It also seems to me that what is not shown/known might have quite a bit of influence.

I am starting to feel that more important than looking at a limited number of genes and mutations, an actual methylation blood test is way more important and way more telling of one's status.

 

[adreno]

I have had the same thoughts. Surely there must also be many more SNPs, which functions we have not learned yet, as this science is only in its infancy. With so many unknown factors in the equation, it seems that Yasko can't even be remotely close to the truth. We are talking about a handful of SNPs here, out of millions.

 

[hixxy]

None of the methylation panel's available give a large enough picture of the methylation cycle. There's many important metabolites involved in the methylation cycle that aren't measured that could be impacted by failure of the cycle.

So it seems both genetic and pathology testing for methylation aren't very adequate yet.

 

[nanonug]

None of the methylation panel's available give a large enough picture of the methylation cycle. There's many imkportant metabolites involved in the methylation cycle that aren't measured that could be impacted by failure of the cycle.

Well, this is certainly true. However, right now, I am leaning toward a methylation panel being more useful than a nutrigenomics panel.

 

[adreno]

A methylation panel would also account for epigenetic changes.

 

[nanonug]

A methylation panel would also account for epigenetic changes.

Indeed! For example, this Doctor's Data profile certainly doesn't give the whole picture but provides quite a bit of information: Methylation Profile; plasma.

 

[aquariusgirl]

I ran yasko genetics & the ELN/Health Diagnosticss methylation pathways panel for me & my mum. I would say the Methylation Pathways panel was much more helpful.

 

[hixxy]

I do wish Health Diagnostics had a web presence. Makes contacting them a pain in the ass if you're not in a similar time zone.

I've thought of trying to get the Doctor Data panel via a local reseller in Australia, but the panel just doesn't seem as good as the HDRI one. Extracellular measurements. No glutathione measurements or measurements of the forms of folate. Homoecysteine is easily done in Australia for $0. So the DD panel just has the methionine,cysteine and cystathionine to offer.

 

[greenshots]

Yasko assumes you have those defects or you wouldn't be sick. Take the ACE defect, no one getting their testing done now will even know for sure if they have this defect or not since she pulled it from her panel to look at another CBS defect but yet something like 90% of the autistics and CFS have had this defect. Same goes for NAT and GST enzymes. If you study it fairly intensively as I have done for the past 6 years, you would understand it much more and I wish I had an easier way for the skeptics but I just don't. I don't even have as a good a handle as others do yet I can see how it pans out in the end and having 2 normal kids now (2/3 autism) as well as myself, my best friend, my neighbor's wife and son, and about 30 people in my biomed group being on the mend, I'm going to just have to say it works.

The fact is, Methylation turns on & off other genes. Could there be other genes that are knocked out in methylation? Yes, in fact, she counts on it. But after applying it on so many people, it seems that these main snps are enough to recover 80+% of the people. Although that's not 100%, it sure beats Teitelbaum and the rest plus you get health and improvement for those troubles. You can go around in circles debating it all day long but at the end of the day, results are what count to me and since I have seen the science back it up time and time again, I just couldn't waste that kind of time. I'm glad I didn't either since I'm now approaching 75-80% of my former life. Only this time I won't make some of the same mistakes that got me here in the first place.

Good luck on the debate, but I do hope you can move forward somewhere without losing too much time, money or ground.

Angela

 

[roxie60]

Are you refering to the Health Diagnostics Methylation Pathways Panel?? I am requesting a test fr my Dr and I want to be sure I'm spending my money wisely to get the most usefull information in understanding my condition. If there was one test that you guys think can provide the most useful info andhelp with ME/CFS diagnosiis please let m know. I am on short term disability and trying to get all the tests done that I need to make progress. TIA

Having translated 23andme results to Yasko's Nutrigenomics Panel format, I decided to go down the rabbit hole and investigate additional biochemical pathway screw ups. Two things became very clear very fast:

1. Yasko's methylation map is quite simplified. A slightly more complicated but still simplified would be this one-carbon metabolism diagram.
2. For many of the genes described in Yasko's Nutrigenomics, there are a bunch more mutations than the ones tested. For example, for CBS, there are a bunch of mutations that downregulate the enzyme's activity. The data on omim clearly illustrates this.

Given just these two observations, it would seem to me that Yasko's Nutrigenomics Panel is nothing but the tip of the iceberg. It also seems to me that what is not shown/known might have quite a bit of influence.

I am starting to feel that more important than looking at a limited number of genes and mutations, an actual methylation blood test is way more important and way more telling of one's status.

 

[roxie60]

Seems people are split down the middle. Anyone know how much these two offereings cost? I spoke with Health Diagnostics last week but forgot to ask or write it down if I did ask, dont remember.

I also think Valentine said they were working on a web presence but in infancy. She offered to send brochure to my Dr.

 

[nanonug]

Are you refering to the Health Diagnostics Methylation Pathways Panel??

Yes, that is a popular one. There is also Doctor's Data Methylation Profile. However, to be honest with you, I would not spend the money on this until after dealing with the gut issues.

 

[roxie60]

Yes, that is a popular one. There is also Doctor's Data Methylation Profile. However, to be honest with you, I would not spend the money on this until after dealing with the gut issues.

How do I deal with the gut issues, forgie me if I missed the post about how to deal w gut issues. Thx. I want to do thing in the 'right' order...

 

[nanonug]

How do I deal with the gut issues, forgie me if I missed the post about how to deal w gut issues. Thx. I want to do thing in the 'right' order...

You've got it covered in this post of yours.

 

[roxie60]

You've got it covered in this post of yours.

Thanks, still have to get gastro Dr o agree.

 

[nanonug]

Thanks, still have to get gastro Dr o agree.

If s/he doesn't, you can always go rogue (and tell him/her to frak off): Metametrix GI Effects Complete Profile - Stool. This test doesn't tell you anything about SIBO, though.

 

[hixxy]

Early on Rich's stance on this was to fix the gut first. It has changed in recent times to only fixing the gut first if it's severe / causing malabsorption / unable to maintain weight.

This comes from the fact that the 2 treatments work synergistically together. My bowel movements have become more regular since taking b12/methylfolate, even despite continuing significant dysbiosis.

You just have to be more careful to supplement cofactors when you have a continuing gut problem it seems.

 

[greenshots]

I agree about not going after the gut first unless its really an issue. But if you have the CBS or ACAT, its possibly going to come back toi haunt you. I tried to ignore it for both me and my son, in spite of my Doc's dire warnings, and went backwards, only to start over again a year later, losing much precious time. i think it can really depend on more than the actual gut problems.

Angela

 

[DANEL]

are you just doing the b12/methylfolate? following rich's protocol? are or you following your own?
what are the co factors to take?

i can't seem to find his protocol.

another question from what i am trying to understand by reading here is no test will tell you everything, BUT is one better than the other? one we should try ? or combine several to get the whole picture of the pathways,
or just address the methylation issues with the protocol and save your money?

my NP thinks i should take the amy test, really this dr doesn't know as much as you know here on this group, thank God and thank you!! b/c she says why take a lot of supplements if you don't have to, just fix the broken parts along the pathway.
what do ya'll think?
doesn't seem like there is harm taking the supplements whether that pathway is affected or not, is this right?

thanks
denise

 

[nanonug]

my NP thinks i should take the amy test

I would say: save your money! In my opinion, 23andme is a way better deal.

For the methylation protocol, taking Pure Encapsulations Multi t/d will give you pretty much what you need. You may add additional B12 or methylfolate if need arises.