Feel extremely cold with methylation supplements

[fozzaw]

I've tried to take various methylation related supplements, but I keep having a problem of feeling extremely cold. Is there an explanation for this?

The coldness starts in the lower legs, and depending on the dose, makes my whole body frigid for a few hours. Once I took some TMG in the summer, and i had to wear snow pants and my winter coat until it wore off. It's not adrenal stress, and I don't have other symptoms that are serious or noticeable.

The supplements that cause it:

• TMG
• P5P (also makes my mouth dry until it wears off)
• folinic acid (never tried methylfolate)
• Jarrow MB12

What doesn't cause it:

• lecithin/phosphatidylcholine in large doses does NOT cause it although it's supposed to be a methyl donor
• folic acid (I guess I don't convert it)
• AB12 (because it's not a methyl donor? not sure)
• B6 (obviously a conversion issue)

I think it relates to a deficiency in other things, but I need some clues!

For example, I have found recently that my liver doesn't produce much bile without P5P, but only on the first day. It seems I need niacinamide and possibly other things for P5P to make my liver work better. However it takes something like weeks of no P5P to replenish the niacinamide and whatever else is needed. I can't tolerate much niacinamide because my liver has a low threshold of toxicity for it. I will be trying NADH and NAD to test this theory further. There are other B vitamin relationships that I have noticed, but I have not been able to crack the cold feeling I get from some of the methylation related supplements.

Is there something I've missed??

 

[gu3vara]

Felt the same as you, extremely cold feel, I actually worsen on the methylation protocol, particularly on the active one (methylb12, methylfolate).

Perhaps the solution is in the "B2 depleted" theory of Dog Person, just have a look at the threads in this section. Would certainly explain the worsening I had. She thinks that taking too much Bs is causing a depletion of B2 storage cause B2 is needed to activate other Bs, leading to more problems. My nails got worse on methylation supp and I developed chemical sensitivity that I didn't have before etc...

I stopped all supplements and I'm on B2 and B1 only now, I'll had some b12 and methylfolate in a few weeks, but not as much as I used too.

Hope this help!

 

[fozzaw]

With riboflavin, I found that 400 mg had no effect but 25mg of FMN (Source Naturals sublingual) consistently works really well in terms of a mental & liver energy boost. Unfortunately it doesn't last very long. Thorne FMN made me ill, which was unexpected. I haven't noticed if there was any relation with the methylator-induced coldness so I'll give it a few trials.

 

[nanonug]

Is there something I've missed??

Have a look at this: Methyl Cycle Genomics

What you need or don't need to take, or even what you need to avoid, may greatly depend on your particular genetics.

I personally use 23andme do get this kind of genetic information about myself. I found it very useful in determining what kind of supplements to take and what to avoid.

 

[greenshots]

Welcome to detox! I always have freezing cold & even chills with anything that causes start up, just drop the dose to a speck and increase your specks as you go along.
Angela

 

[greenshots]

I like my doctor's website better, its easier to understand

Overall link
http://autismnti.com/yourbodyschemistry.html

Methylation and your body chemistry
http://autismnti.com/images/Website-_Yasko_Education.pdf

Angela

Have a look at this: Methyl Cycle Genomics

What you need or don't need to take, or even what you need to avoid, may greatly depend on your particular genetics.

I personally use 23andme do get this kind of genetic information about myself. I found it very useful in determining what kind of supplements to take and what to avoid.

 

[fozzaw]

It is a little early with my experiment but I suspect that my problems (P5P & feeling cold, P5P causing temporary bile flow) are both due to a lack of Prostaglandin E1 from a deficiency of GLA. PGE1 increases mucous and body temperature. I suspect the P5P was increasing body of bile (the mucous component) which I could feel (and assumed was be bile itself), consuming PGE1 which would also explain the drop in body temperature. I rarely get fevers when appropriate.

PGE1 also helps produce bicarbonate in the gut, and I have had recent problems where malate induced stomach acid was not neutralized, causing diarrhea.

I also have noticed that licorice (which slows down PGE1 breakdown) used to trigger noticeable mucous flow in my sinuses but that effect stopped a while back, so another possible sign of PGE1 deficiency. I started borage oil this morning and have already seen increased mucous flow. I'll find out in the next few days if this is the cause of my problems. I have been taking EPA/DHA for a while so there is also a balance to consider in the future if this theory tests out.

I found most of the information on PGE1 in Cutler's AI book this morning, and was able to confirm on pubmed. However I haven't yet found information on a direct link between P5P or methy donors and PGE1.

 

[redo]

fozzaw. Is it worse during day or night? Or the same?

 

[richvank]

I've tried to take various methylation related supplements, but I keep having a problem of feeling extremely cold. Is there an explanation for this?

The coldness starts in the lower legs, and depending on the dose, makes my whole body frigid for a few hours. Once I took some TMG in the summer, and i had to wear snow pants and my winter coat until it wore off. It's not adrenal stress, and I don't have other symptoms that are serious or noticeable.

The supplements that cause it:

• TMG
• P5P (also makes my mouth dry until it wears off)
• folinic acid (never tried methylfolate)
• Jarrow MB12

What doesn't cause it:

• lecithin/phosphatidylcholine in large doses does NOT cause it although it's supposed to be a methyl donor
• folic acid (I guess I don't convert it)
• AB12 (because it's not a methyl donor? not sure)
• B6 (obviously a conversion issue)

I think it relates to a deficiency in other things, but I need some clues!

For example, I have found recently that my liver doesn't produce much bile without P5P, but only on the first day. It seems I need niacinamide and possibly other things for P5P to make my liver work better. However it takes something like weeks of no P5P to replenish the niacinamide and whatever else is needed. I can't tolerate much niacinamide because my liver has a low threshold of toxicity for it. I will be trying NADH and NAD to test this theory further. There are other B vitamin relationships that I have noticed, but I have not been able to crack the cold feeling I get from some of the methylation related supplements.

Is there something I've missed??

Hi, fozzaw.

It could be that when you stimulate the methylation cycle you are initially causing a further drop in glutathione, which is making the mitochondrial dysfunction worse at first, because more of the homocysteine is being converted back to methionine. That would lower your metabolic rate and thus, heat production. TMG would do that, as would folinic acid and MB12. If you have a CBS upregulating SNP, the P5P might lower glutathione, too. AB12 would boost the mito activity, probably. As you suggested, folic acid is probably not converted fast enough, and if you are low in B2, the conversion of B6 to P5P will be slow, too.
Phos choline would have to be converted to TMG to stimulate the methylation of homocysteine, and that is probably slow, too.

Best regards,

Rich