60-Minutes Segment on Anti-Depressants Efficacy vs. Placebo

[heapsreal]

The drug ketamine was profiled in this ABC News segment a couple weeks ago.

Party Drug to Treat Depression ?

Some highlights:

1) The person profiled in the report mentions that the effect was almost immediate. Upon taking just one dose, he said he felt "clear" for the first time in months.

2) A doctor mentions this has the potential to be the biggest change in the treatment of depression in the past 50 years.

3) Most anti-depressant drugs target serotonin, which act on just 5% of the connections in the brain; ketamine targets glutamate, which acts on 50% of the connections in the brain.

This last fact caught my interest. Isn't there some kind of connection between glutamate receptors and ME and/or CFS? I don't know hardly anything about this, would appreciate any relevant information anybody could provide. -- Thanks.

Wayne

Interesting, dr jay goldstein has written that ketamine as one of the most useful treatments for cfs/me. Another thing i have read in the past that is interesting was that depression treatment resistant patients have responded well to tramadol which not only acts like some antidepressants but also on opiate receptors, maybe also has effects on glutamine. The problem with these meds is that the general public and unknowledgable medical people would be raving on about being drug addicts if these meds were used for treatments outside their current indication.

Sometime i think the do gooders of the world think they are trying to do good but know very little on what they are trying to improve or think they can improve.
This might also be the problem with why xyrem is so hard to get approved for cfs/me sleep problems, because it will turn us all into drug addicts, dont mind that it will improve our ability to function and correct a medical disorder that can be measure by a sleep study??

cheers!!!

 

[Wayne]

Fox News - Antidepressants Facts. The Truth about Psychiatry Depression Drugs

I ran across this rather damning 5-minute segment on FOX News. If you can handle the "style" of FOX News (I can barely do so myself), it is quite interesting and elaborates a bit more on the negatives of antidepressants, e.g., thoughts of suicide and the suicide rate of people taking antidepressants was much higher than those taking a placebo in clinical trials.


[video=youtube;IncNj99k2ig]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IncNj99k2ig[/video]

 

[heapsreal]

Ketamine: The best single agent for CFS/FMS and all other neurosomatic disorders. Known best as an NMDA receptor antagonist (the NMDA receptor is one of the several receptors for the excitatory amino acid glutamate), it increases dopamine in the limbic system, a very important objective in CFS. I administer it by slow intravenous infusion or in PLO gel for transdermal (through the skin) absorption. The intravenous route is more effective, but transdermal application can be done daily, and if effective, can obviate peaks and valleys and need for IVs. I have seen no cases of Ketamine abuse among my patients. Ketamine is one component of my "resurrection cocktail," for patients who have been bedridden for more than a year and whom I may only see once. The others are IV ascorbate (discussed in Betrayal), IV lidocaine, IV thyrotropin- releasing hormone (which raises all biogenic amines plus acetylcholine), Nimotop, and Neurontin (still the most effective oral agent but is being pushed by Tasmar). I am doing trials with Ketamme eyedrops.


http://sunshine35446.yuku.com/topic/2068

 

[Wayne]

Great information heapsreal. Thanks much! I've always been intrigued by the success Dr. Jay Goldstein had with some of his protocols. Just amazing how a particular drug, apparently often ketamine, could almost immediately totally alleviate CFS symptoms, and put a pwCFS into remission for varying lengths of time.

This to me seems to reflect the neurological aspect of CFS, but it never could provide the answer to why a pwCFS would need this kind of intervention to begin with. I suspect most people on this board, including myself, believe it's primarily due to various kinds of infections.

 

[heapsreal]

Great information heapsreal. Thanks much! I've always been intrigued by the success Dr. Jay Goldstein had with some of his protocols. Just amazing how a particular drug, apparently often ketamine, could almost immediately totally alleviate CFS symptoms, and put a pwCFS into remission for varying lengths of time.

This to me seems to reflect the the neurological aspect of CFS, but it never could provide the answer to why a pwCFS would need this kind of intervention to begin with. I suspect most people on this board, including myself, believe it's primarily due to various kinds of infections.

I think goldstein was 'the man' when it comes to the neurological aspects of cfs/me, just need someone to carry on his work and marry it up infectious/immune aspects of cfs/me. Then we will be onto a winner.

cheers!!!

 

[Valentijn]

Yeah - I don't want to act as if AD's should never be used. I do think that there more casual use, and the disinterest in the political nature of such widespread use of psychoactive medication, is deeply worrying.

Another cause for the lack of effectiveness overall might be due to the lack of targeted use. Doctors don't test for the underlying causes of depression (such as unbalanced levels of neurotransmitters) and just keep trying random stuff until something seems to work, or the patient gives up.

 

[Esther12]

Another cause for the lack of effectiveness overall might be due to the lack of targeted use. Doctors don't test for the underlying causes of depression (such as unbalanced levels of neurotransmitters) and just keep trying random stuff until something seems to work, or the patient gives up.

Yeah - the way in which depression is often diagnosed can be pretty ridiculous, and sure to end up lumping together people with a really wide range of different problems.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Wayne, FOX news is the ONLY news I can watch. Good information not to the left.

Those meds do help some people, especially the very ill, but maybe this will help people look into the supplements that help so much more safely. I hope more doctors will learn about 5HTP etc. These are truly effective.

 

[Askeladden]

Ketamine: The best single agent for CFS/FMS and all other neurosomatic disorders. Known best as an NMDA receptor antagonist (the NMDA receptor is one of the several receptors for the excitatory amino acid glutamate), it increases dopamine in the limbic system, a very important objective in CFS. I administer it by slow intravenous infusion or in PLO gel for transdermal (through the skin) absorption. The intravenous route is more effective, but transdermal application can be done daily, and if effective, can obviate peaks and valleys and need for IVs. I have seen no cases of Ketamine abuse among my patients. Ketamine is one component of my "resurrection cocktail," for patients who have been bedridden for more than a year and whom I may only see once. The others are IV ascorbate (discussed in Betrayal), IV lidocaine, IV thyrotropin- releasing hormone (which raises all biogenic amines plus acetylcholine), Nimotop, and Neurontin (still the most effective oral agent but is being pushed by Tasmar). I am doing trials with Ketamme eyedrops.


http://sunshine35446.yuku.com/topic/2068

Just wanted to tell that the link has changed.

http://friends-forum.mosken.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=2068