BLACK MOLD - anyone know about it?

[snowathlete]

Hello everyone.

I cant see where i should post this, so hope its ok here.

Ive read a few posts on the site about Mold, but it hasnt been at the forefront of my mind.
But, today, i noticed that in our ensuite, at the top where the wall meets the ceiling, there is some black mold growing.
I remember reading the black mold is potentially dangerous.

I guess, i am looking at getting it profesionally tested and then removed.
Our house is only almost 5 years old, so i didnt think it very likely that we would have mold, but it looks like we have. Its not dreadfully bad yet - this has jogged my memory that when i was a student a little over a decade ago, i rented a room, which had a windows that leaked water, and that walls got very very moldy, with a black mold. I didnt think much of it at the time and just tried to clean it up with mold spray. came back.
Anyway, i wonder now, could this have been a factor in my getting ME/CFS. Maybe.

Im in the UK by the way, in Wiltshire - if anyone can reccomend a company to come and test the mold and clean it up that would be fantastic!

Thanks

 

[AndrewB]

Interesting this, i was also exposed to large levels of this stuff too. I don't think it causes our disease, but it certainly wont help your respiratory system at all.
I strongly recommend you avoid this stuff, especially if you also have any other unrelated conditions to your M.E such as Asthma or pretty much any
other breathing complaint.
There will be lots of companies you can google who'll be able to tackle this, but it does involve stripping to the brick, as this mold will be all through your
plaster work.
In the meantime, if you can access the mold yourself, put bleach onto it, it kills the surface mold, but be careful not to breath the bleach fumes if possible.

 

[Sushi]

In the meantime, if you can access the mold yourself, put bleach onto it, it kills the surface mold, but be careful not to breath the bleach fumes if possible.

Probably not a good idea to tackle it yourself. Someone here got a lot worse from doing so, even with protective gear.

Sushi

 

[maddietod]

I think black mold is a lot less toxic than the less visible ones. I had it all over a bathroom years ago, and one summer when I felt strong I opened all the windows, washed off the mold with bleach, and then painted the bathroom with mold-repelling paint. That was years ago, and there's been no recurrence.

I agree with Sushi that it's best to have somebody else do this. I just wanted you to know that it works.

 

[snowathlete]

Thanks everyone. Its the sort of thing that if i didnt have ME i wouldnt be scared of doing myself, but with ME and the risks involved, there is no way im going to do it myself. Also, from what i have read, black mold is usually (though not always) toxic, so definately to be avoided - at least until i can get it tested.

Even then, from what ive learnt about ME, stuff like this may or may not be a cause, but when you have the illness you are prone to pretty much everything, so need to avoid stuff like this as it may make your ME worse, or add an additional infection/illness ontop of your ME.

Its frustrating, because as part of my effort to try and get better, i am at the moment trying to just cut out anything that puts an additional load/stress on my body, and i feel like its one step forward, one step back when something like this then crops up out of the blue.

How much is it likely to cost to get it sorted do you think? I've got like, zero money.....or minus money might be more accurate.

The ensuite has no window, being in the middle of the house, it has an extractor fan, but my guess is that we need a more powerful one put in too, in order to avoid damp in the room leading to future problems. I think an anti-mold paint is definately a must as well once the problem is sorted.

 

[Mark]

I'd be interested to know whether anyone who has notable recollections of black mold in their homes around the time of onset also has 'itching' or skin sensitivity (aka allodynia or peripheral neuropathy). I've only found one other person who describes exactly the same itching symptomology as myself, and they like me are very suspicious of the severe black mold in the basement at the time of their onset. If I could compare notes with a few more people with similar symptoms of itching, that could be very interesting...

 

[Mark]

Anyway, I would definitely recommend cleaning out any mold thoroughly - get every last bit of it, in every nook and cranny, also get any fluff around skirting boards and carpets cleaned up, and as mentioned, try to get this done by somebody else while you're out of the house. Air filters seem to make a big difference, I have a HEPA filter (not the same thing as an ioniser, you need something that filters particles circulating in the air) and I think that's been a big factor in the mold not returning.

One idea that somebody suggested after I'd dealt with the mold in my own home was to contact Environmental Health; I've never done so but it might be worth a try. Of course one of the difficulties is that most approaches are likely to use chemical cleaning products that you might also be sensitive too, so it might be worth looking for an eco-friendly cleaner. I found that (for me) most of the mold could be cleaned quite well just using hot water...but I should note that the mold I cleaned up wasn't the same stuff as the black mold that was present in the basement of the house I was living in at the time of onset - that was a huge quantity of severe mold and I reckon it would probably have taken something special to get rid of that...

 

[richvank]

Hi, snowathlete.

Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker in Pocomoke, Maryland, USA specializes in mold illness and other biotoxin illnesses. He gave a seminar this past October, and Scott Forsgren wrote a summary of it here:

http://betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/251-biotoxin-illness-conference-2011

Dr. Shoemaker also has some websites:

http://www.survivingmold.com

http://www.biotoxin.info

http://chronicneurotoxins.com

Best regards,

Rich

 

[snowathlete]

Air filters seem to make a big difference, I have a HEPA filter (not the same thing as an ioniser, you need something that filters particles circulating in the air) and I think that's been a big factor in the mold not returning.

Are these expensive, or cheap. I know my Dyson has a HEPA filter in it, so my guess is that they arent that expensive.

Rich, thanks for those links, i will check those out.

 

[maryb]

If money is a problem you or preferably someone else could try taking the top layer of the mold off with natural products I would try, lemon juice, vinegar, bicarb etc, or there maybe something else with natural ingredients on the market specifically for this problem, healthy house has a good website and the staff are very helpful, if you have MCS though even their natural spray products may not be suitable. Its unlikely to completely solve the problem but if you got one of the air filters specifically for mold problems and put in a higher powered extractor you may just keep it down.

 

[Mark]

Are these expensive, or cheap. I know my Dyson has a HEPA filter in it, so my guess is that they arent that expensive.

Mine's a Bionaire Air Purifier BAP242, cost me about 40 or 50 from Argos. The HEPA filters themselves need replacing every 6 months or so but they aren't that expensive. It's well worth it IMO, one nice side-effect is I find I don't need to dust anywhere near as often as I used to...and that's a biggy for me because dusting always used to really wipe me out.

 

[xrunner]

I think Rich's reference to Dr Shoemakers work is quite important.
It's something I had overlooked until very recently. I found out by chance that mold can be present even if we can't see it. It grows everywhere particularly in places one can't reach eg under a wooden floor or carpets. My "luck" is that I discovered to be allergic to it, so I can detect it even if I can't see...my eyes and throat start itching when it's present.
Have a look at this chart, from Dr S. site which shows how toxins from mold and bugs can affect the immune system by kicking in inflammation.

http://www.survivingmold.com/docs/biotoxinpathwayritchieshoemakermd.pdf

 

[AndrewB]

Ive been exposed to it many times in the past, starting around 10 years before the onset of this miserable disease.
I know that Bleach will kill it on the surface, but the mold does grow within the plaster and it usually does require being
stripped back to the brick. Usually what your seeing on the surface is only a small part of the problem, but its sound
advice not to tackle it on your own with M.E as there are so many triggers and nobody wants to be getting a severe
relapse if its at all avoidable.
Good luck with it all

 

[snowathlete]

if you got one of the air filters specifically for mold problems and put in a higher powered extractor you may just keep it down.

Yes i think im going to get one of these, especially as Mark points out you can get them from Argos for not much money really.

Its worth it just to stop having to dust as much. Its crazy how much dust builds up in a short time, and the house although small, is too much for me often.
Thanks for that info by the way Mark.

Thanks xrunner for that link, im going to have to look into this stuff in more detail, its certainly interesting.

 

[maryb]

Problem with the filters is sometimes the cheaper ones tend to use expensive filters so check that out. Also filters differ in what they do, some are specifically for mold, others are for dust etc. Its hard work looking at all the variables.

 

[slayadragon]

If those who are interested let me know their email addresses, I will send them some information about this topic.

Best,

Lisa Petrison, Ph.D.

lisapetrison at yahoo dot com

 

[alex3619]

I'd be interested to know whether anyone who has notable recollections of black mold in their homes around the time of onset also has 'itching' or skin sensitivity (aka allodynia or peripheral neuropathy). I've only found one other person who describes exactly the same itching symptomology as myself, and they like me are very suspicious of the severe black mold in the basement at the time of their onset. If I could compare notes with a few more people with similar symptoms of itching, that could be very interesting...

Hi Mark, I did not have any black mold around anywhere near anything I could call a time of onset. I have had a staged history - repeated infections and exercise attempts have led me step by step from sub-clinical to almost severe ME. However, around a decade ago I developed new symptoms, including peripheral neuropathy and increased itch. At this time I had moved into a cheap unit in the inner city. Why was it cheap? In heavy rain thirty to forty buckets of water would come in through the roof. The carpet was mouldy. The bathroom walls were mouldy. I eventually moved to get away from the water and mould, but the new symptoms remained. Bye, Alex

 

[Dreambirdie]

MOLD REMEDIATION is EXPENSIVE!

I had a problem with a big defective window that was creating a lot of condensation and trapping it inside the window frame. The moisture also got into the window sill and the surrounding sheetrock and that created the perfect environment for mold to grow. The spores spread to other windows in the room and created a lesser mold problem with them as well. When I had the mold tested, by a local company who has a lab that does this kind of work, it turned out that there were a few different molds in that room, though none of them were particular in the high range. Still, I decided for cautions sake, to bite the bullet and do mold remediation.

It turned out to be a MAJOR deconstruction job. Three guys in hazmat suits showed up at my house and they created a zippered barrier to the room. Next they installed a giant fan, that sounded like a freaking jet engine, in one of the windows to make sure the air pressure was blowing any loose spores out out the house and not back into the room. After that they proceeded to rip all the moldy stuff (sheetrock, wood, insulation) out of the walls. They bagged it in plastic bags and tossed the bags out the window. It was a big job and took about 2 weeks to be completed. In the meantime, they replaced the window with a new and VERY EXPENSIVE one.

Yes, *EXPENSIVE* is the key word here. It cost an arm and a leg to get everything moldy out the room, and to this day (about a year and half later) I still don't have the money to reconstruct that room. So it is closed off to me until that day comes.

Looking back in retrospect, I am not sure if all this work was so absolutely necessary. I wasn't spending a whole lot of time in that room and I didn't feel particularly worse when I was in there, but because I always want to be super dooper careful with everything regarding my health, I jumped in and went for it. However, if I was going to do the job now, knowing what I now know, I probably would not hire such an expensive bunch of workers. I would figure out a way to get my handy man to finagle the job for much less cost and much less hassle.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mya Symons]

My sister in law had black mold. She did a temporary fix by spraying the wood that was showing and painting over the walls and any wood she could get to with Kilz paint. It wasn't a long term fix, but perhaps it would be something to do if you don't have the money right now or government help to get the mold cleaned up.

 

[*GG*]

In the meantime, if you can access the mold yourself, put bleach onto it, it kills the surface mold, but be careful not to breath the bleach fumes if possible.

I recently read on Dr. Mercolas website that he suggest vinegar and baking soda.

GG