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1 disorder which traditional medicine can't cure, and alternative medicine can?

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
Hi Rich,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on more question, don't mind at all. Good to get lots of info and perspectives.

When you write , is there a test for these certain genomic polymorphisms you mention? Many thanks

Hi, anniekim.

Yes, the Genovations Detoxigenomic Profile characterizes whether GSTM1 is missing or not, and it also characterizes two SNPs in the GSTP1 enzyme. Probably the 23andme.com panel includes some of the GSTs also, but I haven't sorted them out.

Best regards,

Rich
 

anniekim

Senior Member
Messages
779
Location
U.K
Rich, thanks for your reply. Apologies if you have already given the information elsewhere on PR but who does that test? I live in the UK. Can it be arranged from the UK? Many thanks.

Thanks Catseye for your detailed reply too. I take it from your point of view the first step you would tackle would be healing the leaky gut, then methylation (did you follow a methylation protocol, take supps etc..?) and then finally heavy metals? Many thanks
 

Dufresne

almost there...
Messages
1,039
Location
Laurentians, Quebec
Hi, Lisa.

Dr. Shoemaker, in response to a question as to whether he would acknowledge that not every case of ME/CFS involved biotoxin illness, said that in his view, no one with ME/CFS can afford to ignore the possibility of biotoxin illness.

Best regards,

Rich

I don't think an ME/CFS sufferer could better spend 15$ than on a VCS test from Shoemaker's site. Even if the test is only 92% accurate, that means 92% of those whose problems may solely be solved by addressing biotoxins won't have to endure years of battling an inscrutable foe. A no-brainer. I find his work so persuasive I've gone on to order the HLA DR to see if I'm possibly one of the 8% false negatives. This is costing me around 600$, but as the man says, you can't afford not to.
 

Catseye

Senior Member
Messages
109
Location
SW Florida
anniekim, that was what I had to do in my case. I had LG so bad I couldn't hardly eat or leave my bed and my hypoglycemia was horrible. My doc said to go after LG first, in particular the gut bugs. After killing off all the yeast and most of the bad bacteria (took over a year), we increased some liver supps and the methylation cycle came back on over a 2 week period where I got a huge boost in energy. I know from reading Rich's articles that was what happened. It was a big improvement in symptoms from head to toe, everything just felt better and I wasn't as bed bound. It was still a while after that before I was able to handle chelation, however.

I've had to stay on top of the intestines ever since. I'm scared to stop taking digestive enzymes or do anything that might allow them to get bad again. I plan on getting occasional CDSAs done the rest of my life to make sure my guts/immune system remains in a healthy state. It's too important to ignore or forget about.
 

Sallysblooms

P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!
Messages
1,768
Location
Southern USA
Did anyone read about Suzanne Sommer's journey with cancer in the Life extensions Magazine or see her on Dr Oz Friday? So very interesting what she has done, will be helpful now for everyone. Facinating.
 

anniekim

Senior Member
Messages
779
Location
U.K
Hi Catseye, so in your case you feel by treating the leaky gut this allowed the methylation cycle to be fully restored without taking the supps in Rich's methylation protocol?

When you said at your worse you couldn't eat was this due to extreme exhaustion or due to nausea and bad digestion?

I have a really big appetite and need to eat small amounts every two hours or so. So I looked up Biotics Research Glycozyme Forte tablets you mentioned which could perhaps help with this. I note you said you took two with each meal, totalling six each day. Biotics suggest three tablets daily. Did your doc suggest doubling the dose?

Finally was it oil of oregano that killed both your bad bacteria and yeast, ie is oil of oregano effective against bacteria as well as yeast? I knew it kills yeast but I didn't know it kills bacteria. I take it you didn't use antibiotics at all which would be great. Ah, edit, re this question. Reading your past posts on this thread again, I see you say oil of oregano tackled both your bacteria and yeast if I read it correctly.

May I also ask how you know you have a heavy metal burden? Have you done a test? If so which one? I'm interested in heavy metals but here so much conflicting info on the reliability of heavy metal testing that it would be great to pick your brains if that's ok.

Many thanks for your time and help, much appreciated
 

anniekim

Senior Member
Messages
779
Location
U.K
I don't think an ME/CFS sufferer could better spend 15$ than on a VCS test from Shoemaker's site. Even if the test is only 92% accurate, that means 92% of those whose problems may solely be solved by addressing biotoxins won't have to endure years of battling an inscrutable foe. A no-brainer. I find his work so persuasive I've gone on to order the HLA DR to see if I'm possibly one of the 8% false negatives. This is costing me around 600$, but as the man says, you can't afford not to.

I am not knocking you doing this. I havent read enough about it all to make a comment. My only penny's worth is every practitioner says yes such a test is expensive but if it restores your health it's worth it. If it does restore one's health then of course it is and that is the carrot Yet over the years of having this illness, I've paid for many things as this or that theory could be what will restore my health, only for it not to work. I just find it hard to decide whether to fork out more money which I have very little of for something that may or may not work....i hope this proves to be a fruitful path for you to go down on
 

Catseye

Senior Member
Messages
109
Location
SW Florida
Hi Catseye, so in your case you feel by treating the leaky gut this allowed the methylation cycle to be fully restored without taking the supps in Rich's methylation protocol?

When you said at your worse you couldn't eat was this due to extreme exhaustion or due to nausea and bad digestion?

I have a really big appetite and need to eat small amounts every two hours or so. So I looked up Biotics Research Glycozyme Forte tablets you mentioned which could perhaps help with this. I note you said you took two with each meal, totalling six each day. Biotics suggest three tablets daily. Did your doc suggest doubling the dose?

Many thanks for your time and help, much appreciated

Yes, it seemed like once I lightened the load on the liver by fixing the gut and giving it some supps to help it along (liver cleanse pills, MSM, etc.), it began working much better. I had had hep c which left me with some liver damage, though. So I had to take special care of mine, and still do. I had tried the supps for the methylation protocol. I even shelled out for the expensive RNA. I know I got some energy from the folate but it wasn't enough to restore methylation. I tried that long before I started aggressively going after LG. I had kinda sorta been going at it myself alone but I realized after awhile I needed an expert's help. So I found this doc and when he told me what to eat and what to avoid and added all these new supps, it was a very aggressive plan compared to my half ass attempt. Plus we were using CDSA tests to monitor progress to make sure stuff was really dying off like it was supposed to, and that certain enzyme systems were improving.

I couldn't hardly eat because I wasn't making enough stomach acid or enzymes so eating made me feel bad. When your liver gets hit with undigested fats and proteins (which stomach acid breaks down), you really feel it, I felt like I was dying after a meal containing fats or proteins, like chicken or nuts. I would eat really small amounts. But after I got on the digestive enzymes and the betaine hcl, I was able to eat a meal without feeling bad - I really needed those things. We could tell from the CDSA that I wasn't making enough stomach acid or digestive enzymes. I never got nausea, and I have been so tired I could barely chew, but it was mostly this horrible dying feeling from my liver being overwhelmed constantly. In the beginning, I was taking up to four 650 mg capsules of betaine hcl with every meal. And that's with like only a drumstick worth of meat - that's how badly I needed acid with my food. I wouldn't get even a hint of heartburn from that. Eventually, I would, though, and was able to cut it way down as things improved.

About the Bio-glycozyme Forte, yes he put me on a larger dose. He usually did that with the supps I was taking, it was always more than they recommended. I'm sure it was because digestion wasn't working properly and so I wasn't able to absorb nutrients in sufficient quantities unless I took high doses. None of the supplements he put me on back then for LG made me feel bad. It was only later when we tried some kidney support that I would get run down after a few days and feel bad, probably because my liver didn't like it.

Also, my doc didn't really know about methylation. When I mentioned it he didn't know what I was talking about exactly, but he could still tell from the CDSAs that my liver was being overwhelmed. When he put me on liver supps to restore its function, he was just going by the lab tests. I kept on with the folate from Rich's protocol throughout all of this, though. And I even still take it to this day. Besides the folate, I also take other bioactive forms of B vitamins (like niacinamide, p5p, pantethine) because the liver has to convert these and I know I have some damage from the hep c still. So many of the supps I still take are with my liver in mind, like liver cleanse pills.

It's funny to look back on all of this and see how simple it sounds. But at the time I was learning it all and I was so thrilled when it was apparent that it was working. I credit Dr. Farr with curing my LG, and I really picked his brain to understand everything I was taking and why during that time. I was taking handfuls of pills several times a day. It really was an insane amount of pills, but that was what it took to do the job.
 

slayadragon

Senior Member
Messages
1,122
Location
twitpic.com/photos/SlayaDragon
It seems to me that Catseye has done a great job at focusing on the issues in her health and figuring out ways to address them.

However, I'd like to point out that during the process, she's been living in the Caribbean. In general, that's one of the places that people with ME/CFS do really well.

http://locationseffect.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=caribbean

http://locationseffect.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=effect&action=display&thread=200

Depending on how sick people are, visiting the Caribbean can sometimes be enough to make them well in and of itself.

I am sure that the things that Catseye has done have been important in terms of allowing her body to heal.

However, based on what I've seen of the Locations Effect, I wouldn't necessarily expect them to have the same results for people who are living in places with problematic outdoor air or for people who are living in a particularly moldy home.

Best, Lisa
 

uni

Messages
52
Hi, uni.

I wonder if you have ever tried taking coconut oil. The idea is that coconut oil is about 65% medium chain fatty acids. This category of fatty acids is routed directly to the liver from the gut, rather than going into the lymph system and thence to the circulating blood via the thoracic duct, as the longer-chain fatty acids do. If a person takes a generous helping of coconut oil (a couple of tablespoons, for example), the capacity of the liver to burn the fatty acids is overwhelmed, and the liver converts the excess to ketone bodies (beta hydroxybutyric acid and acetylacetate), and puts them into the circulating blood. Some reaches the brain and is able to cross the blood-brain barrier. The brain is able to use ketones as a secondary energy source to glucose.

This treatment has been used for epilepsy, cancer, and most recently, Alzheimer's. In these cases, it seems that the benefit of coconut oil is that the ketones go directly into the Krebs cycle, and do not have to pass through the glycolysis pathway and the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex to get into the Krebs cycle, as glucose does. There appears to be a problem with the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex in these disorders. That is usually not true in ME/CFS, but nevertheless ketones can still be used, and may be a good substitute for glucose to feed the brain when a person is on a low-carb diet.

Of course, this will require good bile function in order to break the coconut oil into small droplets so that lipase can digest it in the gut, but if that is present, it should work.

Best regards,

Rich

Hi Rich,

I have tried coconut oil before, but never in large quantities alone. Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try!
 

uni

Messages
52
Hi Uni,

I didn't keep track of the number of carbs per day, though my doc said as a rule to stay under 40. I know I couldn't have been under that but he knew what I was eating. It's easier to say what I was eating rather than what I was avoiding. I was eating zucchini, eggs, chicken, raw almonds, pumpkin (high starch, I know, I didn't realize it at the time, I was soooo brain fogged), salads with homemade tahini dressing, Lydia's organic crackers made from raw nuts and veggies and broccoli. Also, lots of soup made with the above veggies along with onion, garlic and bell peppers. And lots of Himalayan crystal salt on everything.

I was not digesting food properly so my doc had me on lots of digestive enzymes, betaine hcl and a rice protein, multi vitamin/mineral/amino formula called Nutriclear by Biotics Research. I know this stuff really saved my butt. I still use it, I love it. I was using 2 scoops twice a day for a very long time and just that powder alone for the day was 42 grams of carbs. Now I just use one scoop a day as a multi.

I, too, was also worried about carbs in the beginning of this diet and I told the doc I had severe hypoglycemia and had to eat every couple of hours or at least sip on juice once in awhile. I had been eating lots of brown rice and beans, even in the middle of the night, that's how bad my hypoglycemia was. I even had to use these protein bars at night called Extreme because I couldn't make it through the night with no carbs. Extreme bars are particularly for hypoglycemia, they have some things in them (like corn starch, bad!) that take a long time to break down and so you prevent hypoglcemia. He put me on another supp that saved by butt called Bio-Glycozyme Forte. It's another supp by the same company, you can see their products at their website same name dot com, and it is specifically geared to help blood glucose regulation. I took a couple of these with every meal and within 2 weeks, my severe hypoglycemia was gone. It has B complex, minerals, trace minerals, antioxidants, glandular support and vitamins. I was taking a bunch of supps but these, along with the ADP (oil of oregano) and Nutriclear, helped the most.

I think what causes LG in the first place is a combination of factors. For me, it was a bad diet almost devoid of green and healthy veggies, use of acid reflux pills like Prilosec which halt production of stomach acid (you need acid to kill the bugs, baddies and pathogens in the food and gut), use of NSAIDs and aspirin for pain (they interfere with proper functioning of the stomach and intestines, I could write a whole article on just that), lots of antibiotics for sinus infections, etc. and too much junky food that is high in sugar and carbs. I also had a severe dairy intolerance though I wasn't aware of it at the time. My sinus issues and persistent hay fever were indicative of a dairy intolerance but I only found that out after it was too late. It caused inflammation throughout my body and that contributes to LG, too. I'm not exactly allergic to dairy, but it makes my immune system hypersensitive and then I become highly sensitive to other allergens like cats and pollen. My real nail in the coffin, though, was hep c. When you already have dysbiosis and you end up with a major infection, you're toast.

As soon as yeast are given the opportunity, like with antibiotics and high sugar diets, they will take over. My doc explained it to me like this - imagine a hotel where all the rooms are full of bad bacteria and yeast. In the hotel, there is only so much room, and if they are in control of all the rooms, you have to kill them off to make room for the good guys. And that is the hard part. It takes a very loooong time and is tedious. I had asked him if it was possible to just take a powerful pathogen killer and then just take handfuls of probiotics to replace the good stuff. And that's when he explained about the hotel. In the intestine, we have a balance of good and bad guys. It is the job of the good guys (like bifido, etc.) to make some vitamins and enzymes and help digest food but one of their most important functions is to maintain the integrity of the gut lining. If they get pushed aside by the bad guys, or killed off by antibiotics or whatever, once the bad guys take over, you're up the creek. Btw, I have seen an article in pubmed about how the flora balance in the intestines is crucial for the bone marrow's production of immune system components. If anyone wants to see it, I can go through my notes and track it down.

First, yeast grows out of control because there aren't enough good guys to keep it in check. Incidentally, in AIDS, yeast is the first thing to get out of control, too. And the yeast in the intestines can get particularly nasty, they will put "roots" down into the gut lining and cause even more inflammation, thereby inflaming the pores which are now large enough to let the contents of the intestines seep through. So you end up with undigested food particles (which cause inflammation throughout the body and stress the liver and kidneys) and bad bacteria and yeasts coursing through the bloodstream. If this goes on for a long time, like probably years in my case, then eventually, the liver can't function properly, you lose methylation (thanks to Rich I know all about this now) and then heavy metals pile up and you end up with CFS. And then you have to spend years on google figuring it all out if you want to feel good again and get out of bed! Arggg!

I think the oil of oregano gets everywhere, because I watched my yeast and bad bacteria levels plunge over time from the CDSA tests. I don't think just taking probiotics, even a good one, will get rid of the bad guys because of the hotel explanation. In the gut lining, that's where all these guys reside, and there is only so much room. Once the bad guys have a foothold, it's extremely difficult to remove them. My doc always said you have to starve them and kill them at the same time.

I think if most people did the CDSA test, they would find a certain degree of dysbiosis. But somehow, they are able to keep it in check so it doesn't get too out of control. If they get a major infection, though, they will have a much harder time of healing it.

So are you hypoglycemic? And what carbs are you eating? Can you just switch to veggie carbs and avoid grains and dairy? Once you kill off a good amount of baddies, you'll find your body working better and better as time goes on. You may start out not-so-low carb but you would probably be able to cut out more and more carbs as you go on killing baddies.

Hi Catseye,

Thanks for your detailed reply. It seems that you have gotten good success with getting your leaky gut under control.

I definately have hypoglycemic tendencies. I have to eat every 3 or 4 hours. I also frequently wake up to eat in the middle of the night like you said! My source of carbs comes primarily from rice right now - I don't tolerate grains well in general. Rice has some effects on me, but the least out of the others (except for maybe buckwheat). I guess I should start trying to gradually lower my carbs and maybe try out those supplements you mentioned.

I have a couple of questions for you - So do you still have to stick with a low carb diet now that your dysbiosis is much better?

And does this Dr. Farr guy consult over the phone? I'm wary of seeing non-MDs because I feel like they give a bunch of random supplements and use a lot non-proven therapies, but of course, sometimes MDs do even more damage. Does his other patients have good results? And what does he charge?

Thanks
 

u&iraok

Senior Member
Messages
427
Location
U.S.
I think the oil of oregano gets everywhere, because I watched my yeast and bad bacteria levels plunge over time from the CDSA tests. I don't think just taking probiotics, even a good one, will get rid of the bad guys because of the hotel explanation. In the gut lining, that's where all these guys reside, and there is only so much room. Once the bad guys have a foothold, it's extremely difficult to remove them. My doc always said you have to starve them and kill them at the same time.

Oregano oil works on candida but you must rotate it with other substances because candida will become immune to something you use too long. Rotate every week or every four days to be on the safe side.

I'm glad you mention that probiotics will not kill or crowd out candida. People need to get out from under that misunderstanding. You're just wasting your money if you take probiotics before the candida is killed.

Regarding Leaky Gut, which you take care of after you've cured the dysbiosis (candida, parasites, bad bacteria), here's something that works:

Permavite

Ingredients:

Cellulose 3.7 g
L-Glutamine 3.7 g
N-Acetyl-D- Glucosamine (shrimp, crab, lobster) 185 mg
Slippery Elm (Ulmus rubra) (Bark) Powder 110 mg
Stevia (Stevia rebaudiana) (Leaves) Extract 30 mg
Glandular Complex with Epithelial Growth Factor 70 mg
MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane)
 

u&iraok

Senior Member
Messages
427
Location
U.S.
Hi Rich,

I have tried coconut oil before, but never in large quantities alone. Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try!

Ditto. I'm going to try two tablespoons at a time instead of one, which is what I take now.
 

slayadragon

Senior Member
Messages
1,122
Location
twitpic.com/photos/SlayaDragon
Here are a bunch of articles which suggest that DON, a relatively weak trichothocene toxin, can cause the sort of damage to the intestinal lining that are precisely what we see in CFS. Stachybotrys is an indoor mold that has been shown in other studies to produce toxins that are much stronger than those produced by DON, but that have the same effects.

Insofar as people are living in moldy homes with Stachy growth, they are going to be inhaling the toxins. The body then will attempt to remove the toxins through the intestinal tract -- thus predisposing the body to the sorts of damage that we see in CFS.

Best, Lisa

*

Sergent T, Parys M, Garsou S, Pussemier L, Schneider YJ, Larondelle Y. Deoxynivalenol transport across human intestinal Caco-2 cells and its effects on cellular metabolism at realistic intestinal concentrations. Toxicol Lett. 2006 Jul 1;164(2):167-76. PMID: 16442754.

Li M, Cuff CF, Pestka JJ. T-2 toxin impairment of enteric reovirus clearance in the mouse associated with suppressed immunoglobulin and IFN-gamma responses. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2006 Aug 1;214(3):318-25. PMID: 16504231

Kouadio JH, Dano SD, Moukha S, Mobio TA, Creppy EE. Effects of combinations of Fusarium mycotoxins on the inhibition of macromolecular synthesis, malondialdehyde levels, DNA methylation and fragmentation, and viability in Caco-2 cells. Toxicon. 2007 Mar 1;49(3):306-17. PMID: 17109910.

Moon Y, Yang H, Lee SH. Modulation of early growth response gene 1 and interleukin-8 expression by ribotoxin deoxynivalenol (vomitoxin) via ERK1/2 in human epithelial intestine 407 cells. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2007 Oct 19;362(2):256-62. PMID: 17707346

Van De Walle J, Romier B, Larondelle Y, Schneider YJ. Influence of deoxynivalenol on NF-kappaB activation and IL-8 secretion in human intestinal Caco-2 cells. Toxicol Lett. 2008 Apr 1;177(3):205-14. PMID: 18343055

Moon Y, Yang H, Park SH. Hypo-responsiveness of interleukin-8 production in human embryonic epithelial intestine 407 cells independent of NF-kappaB pathway: new lessons from endotoxin and ribotoxic deoxynivalenol. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2008 Aug 15;231(1):94-102. PMID: 18485432

Yang H, Park SH, Choi HJ, Moon Y. Epithelial cell survival by activating transcription factor 3 (ATF3) in response to chemical ribosome-inactivating stress. Biochem Pharmacol. 2009 Mar 15;77(6):1105-15. PMID: 19101521
 

Catseye

Senior Member
Messages
109
Location
SW Florida
Hi Catseye,

Thanks for your detailed reply. It seems that you have gotten good success with getting your leaky gut under control.

I definately have hypoglycemic tendencies. I have to eat every 3 or 4 hours. I also frequently wake up to eat in the middle of the night like you said! My source of carbs comes primarily from rice right now - I don't tolerate grains well in general. Rice has some effects on me, but the least out of the others (except for maybe buckwheat). I guess I should start trying to gradually lower my carbs and maybe try out those supplements you mentioned.

I have a couple of questions for you - So do you still have to stick with a low carb diet now that your dysbiosis is much better?

And does this Dr. Farr guy consult over the phone? I'm wary of seeing non-MDs because I feel like they give a bunch of random supplements and use a lot non-proven therapies, but of course, sometimes MDs do even more damage. Does his other patients have good results? And what does he charge?

Thanks

I PM'd you.
 

pine108kell

Senior Member
Messages
146
I am not a medical historian, nor am I someone who could say whether one treatment is definitely "alternative" or definitely "traditional" or when "alternative" morphs into "traditional".

But this is obvious to me--traditional medicine has many, many flaws, but it has improved and prolonged the lives of billions of people. Look at antibiotics, HIV/AIDS, surgical procedures etc. It doesn't have all the answers but is helping with heart disease and cancer. I also do not see that any of these helpful medications or procedures derived from alternative medicine, nor do I see any examples where alternative medicine is even an order of magnitude as effective.

Unfortunately, traditional medicine has failed CFS so far, but so has alternative medicine. I am happy for people who have improved their lives with mold avoidance and a thousand other treatments and herbs. I've tried many of them myself (still do hyperbaric O2) and don't blame anyone else for trying them. My view is that, with a few exceptions, that are not generally effective.

Maybe the OP was really getting at the question: Which will eventually have a better chance of curing, or at least limiting the devastating effects of, CFS and other incurable illnesses--traditional or alternative? My answer is that I am not optimistic about our knowledge of CFS or how little current research is conducted but I would definitely go "all in" that traditional medicine is our only real hope. I would have the same answer for Alzheimer's, MS, RA and others.
 

Sallysblooms

P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!
Messages
1,768
Location
Southern USA
I think the key is the integrative MD. With supplements, the brands and doses are important. Also, the combinations you put together. Reg. Med is good for some things but there are many, many things that can be improved with alternative. Using complementary med is best. Best of both worlds. Medicine here in America is good at that.

I have had amazing treatment with both. I would not want to choose. You have to have both working together. Freedom to have supplements and all forms of treatment is everything.
 

Dreambirdie

work in progress
Messages
5,569
Location
N. California
Maybe the OP was really getting at the question: Which will eventually have a better chance of curing, or at least limiting the devastating effects of, CFS and other incurable illnesses--traditional or alternative? My answer is that I am not optimistic about our knowledge of CFS or how little current research is conducted but I would definitely go "all in" that traditional medicine is our only real hope. I would have the same answer for Alzheimer's, MS, RA and others.

I would not agree with this at all. According to an article that appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) back in 2000 (written by Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health) DOCTORS are the THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE US, KILLING 225,000 PEOPLE EACH YEAR.

ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:
12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
80,000 -- infections in hospitals

For more:http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/07/30/doctors-death-part-one.aspx

Every time I have seen a doctor, I've ended up either verbally abused, or damaged from the advice they've given me. There are of course some decent doctors out there who know how to work with CFS, but I personally have not met them. I much prefer TCM and acupuncture, because they "do no harm."
 

pine108kell

Senior Member
Messages
146
I would not agree with this at all. According to an article that appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) back in 2000 (written by Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health) DOCTORS are the THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE US, KILLING 225,000 PEOPLE EACH YEAR.

ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:
12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
80,000 -- infections in hospitals

For more:http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/07/30/doctors-death-part-one.aspx

Every time I have seen a doctor, I've ended up either verbally abused, or damaged from the advice they've given me. There are of course some decent doctors out there who know how to work with CFS, but I personally have not met them. I much prefer TCM and acupuncture, because they "do no harm."

Did the study point out the millions and millions who are helped by conventional therapies? My dad has lived for 20+ years with heart disease because of procedures and treatments. I also do not go to doctors because most are insulting and do not help with my particular condition; however, I am objective enough to see the difference between my condition and general medicine. I would never say that there are not HUGE problems with modern medicine but how could anyone question that it has improved the quality of life for the general population, if not me in particular?

Also, I wasn't saying that I think traditional medicine is CURRENTLY better than alternative for CFS--both are not effective--only that traditional medicine will have a better chance of solutions if it ever gets the attention needed.