Daily Mail - ME after cervical cancer jab

[taniaaust1]

Do you mean in a woman?

yes gyno could clearly see it (in my case I could also feel it.. I know I had something wrong going on even before gyno looked). Daughters could only been seen by them puting something down her throat to look. But anyway.. in our cases it was viewed.

 

[SOC]

Soc ..this article on this school girl getting ME from the HPV vaccine isnt a new at all thing. When the vaccine first came out (wasnt it firstly made in Australia?) there was quite a few girls who got what the medical profession said was "narcolepsy" from it and it was being called to be withdrawn due to that... but then they ended up going ahead with the mass vaccination of school girls.

Interesting that they said originally it was causing narcolespy in a few girls but now saying ME/CFS. (I bet it was ME/CFS it was causing in the first place but of course they wouldnt want to say a vaccine could cause that).

Thanks, tania.

Yes, one reason we put off the HPV vaccine in the early days was because we preferred to wait until there was more clinical experience with it and daughter was not in a situation where she would be exposed to it. There definitely seemed to be some problems in the early days that needed to be worked out.

I'm still unsure where the balance is between risk of problems with HPV and risk of relapse of ME from a live virus vaccine. If we're lucky, it will be a complete non-issue for her, but I don't want to rely on luck where her health is concerned.

Now that she's of age, it's not actually my decision, but she still respects my opinion so I'm trying to develop an educated opinion rather than a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[santi]

yes gyno could clearly see it (in my case I could also feel it.. I know I had something wrong going on even before gyno looked). Daughters could only been seen by them puting something down her throat to look. But anyway.. in our cases it was viewed.

ok because it seems pretty hard to diagnose in a man, unless there are visible warts, that is not the case.

 

[SOC]

My research so far is supporting mellster's and sushi's points. It appears that a combination of lifestyle choices, regular pap smears, and early treatment of pre-cancers is an equally effective way of minimizing the risk of developing cervical cancer. Certain lifestyle choices can also significantly reduce the risk of getting an HPV infection at all.

It appears to me that, given my daughter's lifestyle choices and level-headedness, her risk of having a bad rxn (because of ME) to the live virus vaccine, is much higher than her risk of complications from HPV without the vaccine.

Thanks, folks, for your thoughts on this matter. It really helped to direct my research and clarify my thinking.

 

[SOC]

I think there are serology tests available, but not 100% reliable. Still, it might be worth looking into if one was a man who wants to know how likely he is to expose a vulnerable person (such as an ME, HIV, or transplant patient) to the virus. While HPV poses some risks to men, they are quite small as far as I can tell, so there's probably no reason to test unless you're concerned about transmission. But I could very well be wrong -- I'm certainly no expert!

 

[alex3619]

Hi, all vaccines work by massively stimulating the immune system using chemicals called adjuvants. These are essentially toxins that make the immune system go nuts for a time, which amplifies the response to the virus or virus mimic in the vaccine. For anyone with an immune disorder like ME, any vaccine is an increased risk over the general population. Hepatis B has reportedly had the highest rates of adverse reactions, but none can be considered as safe as if given to a fully healthy person. In any case we often fail to seroconvert - which means we do not develop the B memory cells that are required for any degree of long term immunity. So not only are we at increased risk of an adverse exacerbation of our ME, we may well not receive any benefits. The only vaccines anyone with ME should consider, in my opinion, are those you already have a history of tolerating.

This story is entirely different in healthy people. It may or may not be different in family members of those with ME - we don't have enough data, and that alone means that a child of someone with ME has to be considered at increased risk of adverse events from vaccination on the precautionary principle.

Bye, Alex

 

[taniaaust1]

In any case we often fail to seroconvert - which means we do not develop the B memory cells that are required for any degree of long term immunity. So not only are we at increased risk of an adverse exacerbation of our ME, we may well not receive any benefits.

Id forgotten about sometimes an inability to seroconvert to gain immunity from vaccination if our immune systems arent functioning right.

I had that issue with one of my vaccines many years before I even got ME. I had to have one or two extra doses of the vaccine as they found I hadnt gained immunity from the vaccine like it should of done.
(I hadnt developed immunity to Rubella thou I'd been vaccinated.. and hence found out throu tests I had no immunity to that while pregnant

(I also had my Hep B i think vaccination course done twice over too.. cant remember now thou why that happened.. whether some testing was done which showed I still wasnt immune or what)

 

[*GG*]

I don't know where to sit on this one. I have recently been diagnose with a Cin II - Cin III Precancerous Cervical cell changes. This can lead to Cancer. From the stage that I am at it would normally take five years to turn cancerous, but being pregnant and having ME/CFS speeds things up. I have to go for a biopsy after the baby is born and they will see where it goes from there.

I have always had regular PAP smears (every two years). My last test did not show any abnormal cells. PAP smears are usually the best way of detection as in most cases it takes 10 years to become cancerous from first detection.

All vaccines for me are about waying up the risks. For instance I will be giving my baby the Whooping Cough vaccine as it is rife here in Australia. I had it two years ago, and I couldn't face the chance of my child getting it. Hepatitis B however is now given routinely at birth in Australia. I do not see this as a need to have as the chances of a child being infected with Hepatitis B is relatively small.

Allie

Are you sure cancer is quicker in CFS? I wouldn't think this has been studied, since even some more basic things with CFS have not been studied.

GG

PS How effective is the whooping cough vaccine? I have read that some are not very effective, but big pharma makes them appear that way.

 

[allyann]

Sorry GG, I probably didn't type that right. My doctor told me that pregnancy hormones can speed up the growth of precancerous cells. I was also referring to the higher chances of getting cancers as a result of having CFS that is also mentioned in articles.

I have read that CFS patients have impaired natural killer (NK) cell activity, and it is the NK cells which primarily protect against cancer, but I haven't been able to find any solid links to this research.

Allie

 

[taniaaust1]

PS How effective is the whooping cough vaccine? I have read that some are not very effective, but big pharma makes them appear that way.

When my kids were young there so called whooping cough outbreak. Our little country town made news headlines around Australia over this outbreak. My children were childcare children (so around many other children in out of hours school care) and in primary and also kindergarten when this was going on.. my youngest was a completely unvaccinated child.

My daughter got a cough, it was only a cold.. kindergarten made me take her to the doctor to get medical clearance as they knew she was unvaccinated so of cause immediately targeted her.. the doctor here immediately diagnosed her with having whooping cough (he didnt even hear her cough nor did he test for it!!!). I didnt get her the prescription meds I was supposed to get for it as I didnt believe she had it, 3 days later she was over her cold.

(In other words... the whooping cough epidemic here with hundreds? of children supposively getting it.. was completely untrue.. doctors were just calling any coughs or even when they didnt hear a cough, whooping cough without testing.. I only know of 3 children who certainly did get whooping cough in that outbreak).

I'd like to say too.. that I know at least 2 of those children who did get it.. were vaccinated (probably all 3 were). All the other children the doctors were saying had whooping cough (thou Im doubtful) they were all vaccinated too. My unvaccinated child didnt get it. (It was quite a drama thou as teachers and parents were fearing my unvaccinated child.. would make their vaccinated children sick.. they even tried to make me keep her home but I refused).

(If you have unvaccinated children.. make sure their nutrition is good)

 

[JT1024]

Some researchers believe that eliminating/restricting certain strains of HPV - or never contracting them at all - could lead to overexpansion of other strains as they seem to compete with each other and they don't know yet how many and which ones are involved in contributing to diseases, if at all. I am a skeptic, esp. since big pharma never bothered to develop a test for men and now pushes to just vaccinate boys as well. My son will never get that vaccine (unless compelling research would come up) although I am not anti vaccines in general, I just know for him HPV and Hep A/B are two big no-nos

Just a quick note - I have read that cases of oropharangeal cancers have increased due to HPV. Teenagers engaging in oral sex who contract HPV increase their risk for oropharangeal cancers. These cancers do not discriminate against the male gender.

http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/NR/rdonlyres/BC2C6467-5C24-4769-B882-20758060A4D3/0/FactSheet1.pdf

 

[mellster]

Yeah, I came across that as well - it's odd as previously smoking was blamed for all those and now we have so few smokers left. Also, I am not sure whether oral sex has increased as the age threshold for sex came down over the years, as increased oral sex was often used in 'pruder' times to save virginity. So I am skeptical about this as well although I agree that if you want to be cautious about it and have faith in the health organisations, you might want to follow their recommendations as none of us on this forum is a doctor/expert (on a side note the use of sunblock has increased dramatically while it did nothing much to stop the rise in Melanoma although people used to be out all day in the fields without sunblock in earlier times). Btw. it would be nice if they developed a reliable test for men who want to know but there does not seem to be too much interest in big pharma for this.

Just a quick note - I have read that cases of oropharangeal cancers have increased due to HPV. Teenagers engaging in oral sex who contract HPV increase their risk for oropharangeal cancers. These cancers do not discriminate against the male gender.

http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/NR/rdonlyres/BC2C6467-5C24-4769-B882-20758060A4D3/0/FactSheet1.pdf

 

[Hip]

I just know for him HPV and Hep A/B are two big no-nos

Do you have any refs or weblinks that describe problems with hepatitis A vaccine?

I know hepatitis B vaccine can precipitate CFS and autism, but I was not aware of problems like that with hep A vaccine.

 

[mellster]

Hi Hip, I think you are right on this, however Hep A/B vaccine is often been given as a combo vaccine and that's why I mentioned it that way, I guess Hep A by itself should be fine although Hep A is supposedly non-chronic and 'relatively easy' to get over with. cheers

 

[santi]

I don't have hepatitis A vaccine, I think only sanitary personnel is obligated to take it, and as far as I know the Hep A is far from being lethal.