Really? Is this who we are?

[maddietod]

I tried to follow these new threads because I thought I would come to understand what's going on. But they're full of people I don't "know" arguing strongly in favor of their POVs. So I'm not reading them any more; I'm leaving those threads to people who enjoy that kind of struggle. Eventually this whole mess will sort itself out, and we'll know more than we do now.

In the meantime, I'm happy to find my friends on threads like this one, being kind and supportive with each other.

Best to all,

Madie

 

[leela]

What Madie said

 

[Dreambirdie]

In the meantime, I'm happy to find my friends on threads like this one, being kind and supportive with each other.

Best to all, Madie

Yes Madie, it's great to have a refuge of sanity and support. We have enough stress in our lives already, why invite more.

 

[PokerPlayer]

Standing up for what you believe in is maybe courageous and moral but I wouldn't call that love.
Love means compassion, caring, wanting to protect, peace, being connected.

Actually, I had my mind opened by Anthony DeMello's "The Way to Love". In the book, he offers the notion that love is standing up for what you believe is right, and doing what it takes so that people will live without strings attached to their actions.

So yes, standing up for what you believe in can be one of the finest acts of love, and I love to see people stand up for what they believe in.

 

[leela]

Actually, I had my mind opened by Anthony DeMello's "The Way to Love". In the book, he offers the notion that love is standing up for what you believe is right, and doing what it takes so that people will live without strings attached to their actions.

So yes, standing up for what you believe in can be one of the finest acts of love, and I love to see people stand up for what they believe in.

Amen to that, PokerPlayer.

 

[Sushi]

I tried to follow these new threads because I thought I would come to understand what's going on. But they're full of people I don't "know" arguing strongly in favor of their POVs. So I'm not reading them any more; I'm leaving those threads to people who enjoy that kind of struggle. Eventually this whole mess will sort itself out, and we'll know more than we do now.

In the meantime, I'm happy to find my friends on threads like this one, being kind and supportive with each other.

Best to all,

Madie

Me too Madie,

I am just reading fewer threads and only those that give me actual "facts" or are helpful and supportive in some other way. I do not have the "luxury" to spend precious emotional energy reading and responding to opinions that are divisive in "non-loving," non-objective way. Rational and respectful debate over something is one thing but many thread in the last week or so have gone beyond that.

Wish we had ratings for thread like they do for movies so you weren't in danger of opening a thread and feeling like killing yourself of someone else after reading there for a bit.

Sushi

 

[leela]

Neilk, sometimes love and compassion looks wrathful and fierce.

Think of a mother protecting her child from danger.

There is a key distinction between being abusive and dominant (which is not loving), and being strong and focused in those kinds of fierce expressions of love. It all comes down to the love that is behind the action--whether it is pure self-interest or self-agrandization that is the motivation, or the compassionate desire for the benefit of all, determines whether that action is beneficial or harmful, loving or hurtful.

Love-motivated speech and action does not always look like fluffy rainbows and bunnies. Love-motivated speeah and action, when it is responding genuinely to a clear connection with reality, sometimes looks warn and kind, sometimes looks angry and sharp. Everything is included in clear perception of reality. Nothing is left out. Being clear determines how your loving-kindness manifests.

 

[WillowJ]

thanks Nielk, Leela, Dreambirdie, Wayne, Alex, Madie, Sing, and everyone... very good thread.

I've been avoiding the xmrv threads because I don't see a need to take sides, argue about it, or read anybody else doing so (and I doubt we have enough information to do any of this intelligently, anyway). I have more than enough stress in my life right now without the retrovirus saga.

I'm glad you posted the Kafka pandemic's post, Andrew. :Retro smile:

 

[alex3619]

Hi, for those of you who want to stay away from the vitriolic politics, I suggest avoiding any XMRV thread for some time to come - maybe for all time. This looks like getting really ugly and I suspect its only just started. Bye, Alex

 

[*GG*]

Hi Nielk--

Unfortunately when people get really stressed out, they tend to get angry and go on the offensive and look for someone to blame and attack. The truth is that they (as in WE) are hurting and afraid, but that doesn't feel as powerful as being pissed off and self-righteous, and ready (as you put) to bite someone's nose off. No one wants to feel the horrible sadness of this big ugly mess, because that kind of vulnerability is hard to embrace, especially when you are sick and weak, and scared about becoming sicker and weaker. Ultimately, being willing to be vulnerable and feel exactly what you feel in this moment is actually more sensible and productive in the long run, because it is always easier to make better choices when you can honestly face your fears, instead of reacting to them with more fear and working yourself up into a frenzy about them. But alas! that's not how humans tend to operate.

Yes, this reminds me of comments I hear on TV, you can disagree without being disagreable! In other words, state your differences, but don't get nasty!

GG

 

[pamb]

Just want to add my name to the list of those happy to stay away from all the nervous bickering. None of it will change the reality, whatever it may be, and we will only ever know what we are 'told', but as was wisely pointed out in the first thread, there is SO MUCH amazingly good stuff happening right now. Let's pay attention to the good stuff. The retrovirus involvement will be sorted out in the end and I for one firmly believe there is likely much work on the subject happening right now we are simply not aware of it.

Our world is so much better in so many ways than it was before Oct 2009.

 

[leela]

Amen to that, pamb!

 

[Nielk]

Actually, I had my mind opened by Anthony DeMello's "The Way to Love". In the book, he offers the notion that love is standing up for what you believe is right, and doing what it takes so that people will live without strings attached to their actions.

So yes, standing up for what you believe in can be one of the finest acts of love, and I love to see people stand up for what they believe in.

Hi Pokerplayer,

Thanks for your input. I am all for standing up for what you believe is right. I'm also all for constructive, informative, civil debate. I think though that there is a proper time and ethics as to how it's done. There is also a big issue here that one needs to keep in mind when posting on an open forum made up of ill people who get affected by stress. There is an obligation here to be sensitive to the audience. I know people say "Just keep away from all threads that involve XMRV right now". It's very hard to do that. We are all so impacted by what's going on now that we need/want to know real, true information.
My problem is only about how ugly these posts have become. In addition, I also want to mention that a little information is very dangerous. It gives one power (thinking that they know it all), yet a lot of what they say might be totally wrong.
I am not talking about you personally, Pokerplayer - the ones who are guilty of this know who they are.

 

[SOC]

I think we all need to keep in mind that there is nothing on this forum that requires all members are PWME or carers. A significant amount of the hostility and lack of sensitivity is coming from people with outside agendas. It's not just about how patients treat each other; it's also, and may be mostly, about how patients are treated by non-patients with vested interests.

 

[Nielk]

I think we all need to keep in mind that there is nothing on this forum that requires all members are PWME or carers. A significant amount of the hostility and lack of sensitivity is coming from people with outside agendas. It's not just about how patients treat each other; it's also, and may be mostly, about how patients are treated by non-patients with vested interests.

Thanks SOC. I didn't think of that. I (naively) assumed it's all patients posting.

 

[SOC]

Thanks SOC. I didn't think of that. I (naively) assumed it's all patients posting.

Interestingly, one can google the usernames of some of the more argumentative members and discover unmentioned agendas. And that's only the ones that are using the same username elsewhere.

 

[Nielk]

Interestingly, one can google the usernames of some of the more argumentative members and discover unmentioned agendas. And that's only the ones that are using the same username elsewhere.

SOC - You should be a detective!

 

[SOC]

SOC - You should be a detective!

Learned all this stuff moderating a different forum on a different topic many years ago. It's not easy to protect your forum population from trolls.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I have already registered on another forum called Foggy Friends http://www.foggyfriends.org/forum/content.php

I know some others have as well. Maybe we can have a more peaceful interaction over there.

 

[SOC]

I have already registered on another forum called Foggy Friends http://www.foggyfriends.org/forum/content.php

I know some others have as well. Maybe we can have a more peaceful interaction over there.

Me, too! See you there.