Anyone else getting brainfog from every antibiotic?

[bedman]

Am I the only one getting extreme brainfog, dizziness and confusion from every antibiotic?

It started when I took metronidazol long time ago. now every antibiotic (biaxin, mino, zithro,...) makes it so much worse i cant think clear anymore. i have to stop it then cos i dont want it to make me insane. since the brainfog/confusion-stuff never fully went away it cant be herx.

strangely, often when i took abx and the brainfog got worse other symptoms like fatigue got better. its like: one goes, another comes.

before this sudden flagyl-brainfog-effect i never had any problem with any antibiotic.
i took them because i have possible lyme and chlamydia pneumonia. tests for yeast (tongue, blood, stool) have always been negative.

 

[justy]

Hi Bedman, tests for yeast and candida are notoriously unreliable. I had to take 10 months of antibiotics for an infected lung a few years ago and i had very similar problems which were sorted out by a candida diet and antifungals. I also avoided antibiotics like the plague and my brain fog decreased a lot. This may not be the problem for you i guess. Mine was made much worse by even tiny amounts of sugar and i would get raging "hangovers" for days.
After a year of anticandida programme it is really under control, i can eat small amounts of sugar with no problems and right now i ma taking my first course of antibiotics in over a year (again for a lung infection) and i am tolerating them very well -even my stomach feels fine!

 

[Athene]

Hi bedman,
I have to agree with justy, I still think candida is the most likely cause of the brainfog. As you say, since it didn't go away, it seems unlikely it was a herx.
I have been on antibiotics for Lyme and Chlam pneumonia (amongst other things) for 8 months now and I have taken nystatin the whole time, and of course tons of probiotics too. It might be worth asking for a month of nystatin to try along with the antibiotics to see if this makes a difference.

 

[bedman]

interesting.

rusty, what exactly was your anticandida programme? which antifungals did you take?

athene, isnt nystatin only for candida in the mouth (and a bit bowel)? or did you take a systemic form?

i already tried diflucan (fluconazole), but it only made other neuro symptoms worse (which i think are lyme-related).

 

[Athene]

Hi bedman,
Yes it is. When you get brainfog from Candida, it is derived from the toxins that Candida makes in the intestine.
I have had thrush in my hoo-haa for 23 years and nothing gets rid of it, I have given up and I am beyond caring. When the infection is only there, it is not enough to cause brainfog. The intestine seems to be the only organ that can produce a hgh enough level of toxins.

Another thing that is important for fighting candida is zinc. It works symbiotically with copper, which is actually what the body uses against candida. Most PWCs have copper toxicity because they have a zinc deficiency, which means they stockpile copper because they are unable to use it properly (bio-unavailable copper). Zinc is useful for the immune system generally and is used in many treastment protocols for CFS.

I used fluconazole for a month, pulsed, because it is too toxic to take continuously. And anyway it didn't work. It is definitely is not a solution to take in tandem with long term antibiotics, the longest you can safely take it is one week. All antifungals except nystatin are too toxic for the liver to take longer than this.

 

[Sing]

I had too many symptoms on antiobiotics and the antifungals didn't work--to deal with possible lyme and apparent candida. So I stopped that approach. I am doing better by following a no sugar, low carb diet, using zinc, as Athene just wrote illuminatingly about, and,

for women, would recommend a douche of water and a little white vinegar--twice a day for an active troubling infection, then down to once every other day for maintenance. Whenever the itching starts, use the white vinegar and water treatment. No doctor that I know of will ever tell you this because it supposedly disrupts the flora (they already are disrupted, dummy) and, because it costs nothing, no drug company wants this idea getting out, but the simple vinegar and water douche, as often as needed, is an easy answer.

 

[justy]

I had the candida very seriously systemically, including in my oeasophageus, the fluconazole couldnt be taken long enough to get rid of it, and the candida can become resistant to it. I have lung problems and theiur was a concern about the candida travelling to my lungs so they told me not to use the fluconazole in cse i ever needed it intravenously in the hospital.
I did an anti candida diet - no sugar of any kind, no refined carbs, higher protein, no fruit at first, then only one piece a day (except berries) no tea, coffee, alcohol or tobacco, no dairy, no yeast ( so no bread) no mushrooms or anything fermented. Do the diet for a month, then introduce natural antifungals i took caprylic acid (mycopryl) tsarting with a low dose and then working up over a month or so. then i added in high strength garlic tabs. then i alternated one week mycopryl one week garlic for about 8 months to a year. during this time i had strictly no antibiotics and no steroids. organic eggs only -if you eat meat again be careful fo the antibiotics.
this worked for me and is the only thing that ever has.
I also started taking 1-3 cups pf soya kefir a day, but some probiotic is also essential - whatever you favour -kefir has helped me the most though and if you make it yourself ids so fresh.

Im on day 4 of my strong antibiotics now and unfortunately the brain fog is coming back very badly. i will have to go back to my above approach for maybe a month or so to get rid of the candida again.

 

[xrunner]

When I use Metro I feel spaced out and unfocused (I'm taking it right now) but also fatigued to the point I can't exercise or walk a lot. It affects my nervous system like no other abx, I can get despondent, extremely frustrated or tearful for no reason. It can be v. uncomfortable and therefore have short courses. However, I usually feel better afterwards.
The side effects have however become bearable after I had treatment with Naet/kinesiology. Before this I could not take it at all.

If whilst on abx fatigue diminishes, in my experience, that's a sign they're not working properly. If so biofilm may be an issue. About two years ago I spent three months feeling great on abx and then went backwards once I was off. However, as soon as I started using anti-biofilm agents, it was the opposite. Very fatigued whilst on abx but better afterwards.
Candida and yeast that don't clear with appropriate treatment is another sign biofilm may be an issue.

I tried many probiotics for the gut and in order to avoid any intestinal discomfort or problems, whilst on abx, I need to take several billions. The only one that works for me is VSL3 (450billion bacteria per satchet) which I take together with Ther-biotics (25billion per cap) since they complement each other in terms of blend. I take 1 satchet and 1 caps of those 3hours after every abx dose. I've been eating plenty of fruit and carbs and never had any problem with yeast.
All the best.

 

[Athene]

Hiya Sing,
I've tried the vineagar thing for a few days, but I'm not sure it has made much difference. What is the exact concentration you use?
Athene

 

[Sing]

Hiya Sing,
I've tried the vineagar thing for a few days, but I'm not sure it has made much difference. What is the exact concentration you use?
Athene

Athene,

I don't measure it. A slosh. Maybe that is an ounce? Enough to make the water acidic but not quite to the point of burning. When I have an active infection, it takes a morning and night dosing for several days to bring the infection down. When it starts feeling better, I go back to once a day, then later, once every two days.

Also, if there is any disturbance to the "hoo-ha", this needs to be followed by a vinegar and water "shower" , like washing the dishes after dinner. (Trying to avoid words which attract google interest.) Eating a lot of white bread or sweets will also immediately translate into more of a fungal reaction down there.

If the infection is ever really bad, it may be best to use the strongest local anti-fungal medication for a week, then follow this immediately with the vinegar and water treatments. I stopped needing the medicine ever once I started correcting the PH on my own.

Best of Luck to you!

Sing

 

[Athene]

Thank you Sing! I'll try all this!!!!

 

[Sing]

I sure hope that adjusting the ph with the vinegar and water treatment will work for you, because I know what a difficult, expensive, nuisance it is to have chronic infections "down there". Let me, or us, know how it goes.

 

[topaz]

I have been researching gut bacteria and CFS. It appears that a high percentage of CFS/Fibromylagia sufferers have IBS and higher levels of bad gut bacteria than the controls.

All antibiotics disturb the natural gut flora balance (bad bacteria increase over good flora). Some people recover the good flora in a period of several weeks, others need to address this imbalance via pro-active measures.

Levels of gut flora can be tested via stool analysis test or hydrogen breath test.

Given the strong correlation between CFS and gut flora imbalance, I would suggest taking probiotics and I am about to embark on this myself.

Gut flora imbalance does have brain fog as one of its symptoms.

The best sources of probiotics, imo, are natural ie kefir (significantly higher levels than yoghurt) and fermented foods such as saurerkraut. I suggest getting some kefir grains and making your own kefir - cheap and easy.

Ofcourse, in the meantime you can supplement with probiotics and I have read in numerous sources that the "pearls" are the best form of probiotics.

In conjunction with the probiotics it would be essential to eliminate sugars and carbs from your diet as these feed the bad bacteria (which in turn release toxins and/or embed roots into the intestine (two theories that I have come across - not sure which one is correct but either way, both lead to leaky gut syndrome which is thought to be a cause of CFS).

Personally I found a huge benefit from changing my diet (its not easy to kick that carb addiction but its thought that the bad bacteria thrive on the digested sugars and as these sugars then dont make their natural way through the digestion process, it leaves a person craving sugars and carbs) as it starves the bad bacteria.

I plan to now augment this with probiotics to encourage the population of good bacteria.

Only once your symptoms are at bay, should you re-introduce sugars/carbs but many find that this results in a return to previous symptoms and they have to stay on a candida diet.

It is not just antibiotics that cause the imbalance, NSAID's and acid regulators such as Mylanta, Nexium etc also disrupt the balance.

I apologise for not being able to provide links, but google probiotics and "probiotics and CFS/Fibromylagia" and you will find some useful information (amongst the usual superficial entries).

As for thrush "down there", a yoghurt douche is a well known remedy and has been used since ancient times. I personally dont suffer from this so cannot advise from personal experience but I think the yoghurt treatment (or using kefir) would be better than vinegar as using a probiotic (such as yoghurt) is supposed to increase the population of good bacteria to natural levels. The vinegar could possibly disrupt the balance of good and bad bacteria and may not be a long term solution.

 

[liquid sky]

Metronidazole itself causes neuro side effects. I could not tolerate it at all. It is best not to push through these effects as they can be very long lasting, even permanent. I used antibiotics for a year for Lyme and had a similar reaction to yours. I would get a boost in energy, but other symptoms became intolerable. I took Nystatin orally the entire time. No problems with yeast.

Antibiotics were not the answer for me. I do still take a low dose of Doxycycline daily. It helps me with inflammation. I also recommend kefir and I take a probiotic capsule daily too.

 

[bedman]

Topaz, i already did a stool analysis and just got the results:

- not enough lactobacillus and bifidobacterium
- staphylococcus aureus and clostridium sp. that shouldnt be there
- a bit of Candida, but not enough to make me sick
- ph 6,5

so probiotics is safe even with a weak immune system and chronic anal fissure? or can probiotic bacteria enter the blood via the fissure?

 

[Athene]

Hi Sing,
It seems to be working! Not gone yet but there is a definite improvement. I think I just need to persist. I think I'll have to keep using it permanently to hold the infection at bay, but it will be worth it. Thanks so much for this tip - as you say, far cheaper then pharmacy things (which don't even work anyway).

Bedman,
I had a gut analysis and got very similar results to you. I had a few other naughty bacteria present in very elevated numbers.
I had anal fissure (sometimes several at a time) very severely for over 15 years. I never got any bacteria in the blood from this, neither good ones nor bad. I had this tested, there is a blood test that KDM orders as part of his standard workup. You can PM me if you want details of the lab that does it.

KDM put me on pulsed bursts of antibiotics (one week antibiotics and three of probiotics) and this cured the anal fissures totally in about 2 months. I am convinced this imbalance of bacteria was causing the repeated fissures.
I made friends with another patient in KDMs waiting room who got sky high results for bacteria in the blood from this test. KDM told her it was the highest result he had ever seen in any patient. He put her on a similar treatment, antibiotics and probiotics, and her health improved dramatically.

 

[Lala]

That is very interesting. I have read about Rifaximin beeing good for ten days and that it can really help change the gut environment. What are the atb KDM uses?

 

[Sing]

Glad to hear things are improving, Athene!

Everyone, I would recommend your checking out any long term use of anti-fungal drugs, like Diflucan, etc., on the kidneys and liver. I now have low functioning kidneys--maybe just because of years with ME/CFS, low blood volume, etc. or maybe also because of too long on difficult drugs for the body to eliminate. I know there are the plusses and minusses for everyone to weigh, but try to find the least harmful, most constructive approach you can to helping your "internal environment".

We are our own doctors and nurses, in so many ways!

 

[Athene]

Hi Lala,
I was given ciprofloxacin 500mg twice a day for 8 days. The second month it was zitromax (azithromycin), 500mg one a day for 9 days. The ciprofloxacin improved things a lot but the zitromax was what seemed to do the magic.
I was given rifaximin some months later when I seemed to be starting a little relapse of that problem. That was also totally effective, except that I was in nowhere near the same terrible condition so I cannot make a fair comparison.

Sing,
Very good point about liver protection.
I picked up a leaflet in my local pharmacy yesterday which contained several interesting factlets I didn't know.
1. A healthy hooha has a natural Ph of 3.5, i.e. very acidic and probably the same acidity as the vineagar and water
2. This acidity is created by lactobacillus acidophilus, which the immune system maintains as the dominant resident there
3. immunodeficient women cannot maintain this balance, so the pH gets more alkaline and harmful bacteria and yeast grow there.
4. The acidophilus and other secretions in the vagina create hydrogen peroxide, which is what the vagina uses to disinfect itself.

I asked the pharmacy if they have a douche of acidophilus, seeing as this seems to be the key to getting things sorted out, and they do!!! It costs lots but I bought a one-week pack to see if it works.

I just want to apologise BTW for having hijacked this thread and changed the subject. But it is a very important and useful discussion for those of us who are mouldy!

 

[Sing]

Athene, you found out some very helpful information, which I didn't know, about the normal hooha ph being 3.5, etc.

Having tried yogurt douches and acidophilus capsules opened up into douche water before, to no avail, I found I needed to keep up with the adjustment of the ph via water and white vinegar. Adding in some acidophilus might be a good thing, of course. But it seems that my body is in the immunodeficient category, along with women with HIV or diabetes too, I think. My body can't maintain temporary corrections but needs ongoing ph adjustments.