low body temp mechanism

[Sherlock]

Hi, what typically causes a lowered body temp (from roughly 98.6 to 97.2) in CFS?

I don't have any signs of hypothyroidism: no weight gain, no dry skin (quite the opposite), no hair fallout or nail brittleness, and I can get a very acid stomach after big Paleo-style meals of ground beef.

I did try 2 or 3 bottles of kelp for iodine, with zero effect - though it's true that kelp is not standardized for iodine content. Also, an informal experiment of about 10 days of Synthroid done two years ago (60-70 mcgs, IIRC) produced zero effect.

I also seem to have a hard time cooling down after exercise (and no problems perspiring).

Thanks.

 

[Sherlock]

well, according to richvank on what is apparently his site:

Many PWCs have a lower than normal metabolic rate in their skeletal muscles as a result of the partial blockades in the Krebs cycles there. The results are that they exhibit a low armpit temperature and they feel cold much of the time, even if they have normal thyroid function (which many don't).

http://www.cfs-healing.info/treatment-protocols.htm

so, I'm checking into that as it regards myself. My current temp is 97.2. Yesterday I was tired, but not at all today so far.


However, I've also just come across this:
"Functional Expression of H4 Histamine Receptor in Human Natural Killer Cells, Monocytes, and Dendritic Cells"

In the CNS, histamine is involved in regulating drinking, body temperature, and in the control of blood pressure and the perception of pain.

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/179/11/7907.full

and then this, in a rat study:

intracerebroventricular injection of histamine... Low doses of histamine produced hypothermia while larger doses produced dose-dependent hyperthermia

"Analysis of histamine receptors in the central thermoregulatory mechanism of Mastomys natalensis."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7074279

 

[richvank]

well, according to richvank on what is apparently his site:


http://www.cfs-healing.info/treatment-protocols.htm

so, I'm checking into that as it regards myself. My current temp is 97.2. Yesterday I was tired, but not at all today so far.


However, I've also just come across this:
"Functional Expression of H4 Histamine Receptor in Human Natural Killer Cells, Monocytes, and Dendritic Cells"

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/179/11/7907.full

and then this, in a rat study:


"Analysis of histamine receptors in the central thermoregulatory mechanism of Mastomys natalensis."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7074279

Hi, Sherlock.
I don't actually maintain a website, but some of my papers, articles and talks are on posted on various sites.

There is a published study that reports that the measured core temperature in the body is normal in ME/CFS patients. However, the peripheral temperatures (measured in the mouth or the armpit) are usually low. I think the reason for this is that the mitochondria (which include the Krebs cycle and respiratory chain) in the skeletal muscles in ME/CFS are dysfunctional. As a consequence they do not burn fuel as rapidly as normal, nor do they produce as much heat as normal. This translates into a lower peripheral body temperature because of their low metabolic rate. Normally the metabolic rate is controlled by the thyroid, but when the mitochondria are dysfunctional, the thyroid hormones are not able to compensate for it. Some people who have ME/CFS also have hypothyroiditis in addition, however.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Sherlock]

Thanks for the reply, Rich. I also today came across the abstract you'd posted in the body-temp-poll thread. It's interesting that the core temp in CFSers stayed the same even during peripheral fluctuations/elevations.

(Btw, that page at cfs-healing.info with your writing that I'd found was a very good overview.)


Now, just as more data for anyone out in the CFS world who's also trying to correlate temp with symptoms: I was at 97.2 yesterday morning. Later in the day, I had the burning eyes and felt a little sick ( & tired) along with that, including the urinary symptoms. My temp was 98.7, which is a height I hadn't seen since I can remember (aside from exercise-inducement or being in a hot room). My BP is also usually elevated when feeling sick: from ~120/80 or lower when well, to ~135/90 when feeling sick.

 

[Sing]

We had an earlier thread on this subject of low body temperature. Dr. Byron Hyde also noted it as part of the pattern of symptoms we share for ME. I too have low body temperature. For me a normal body temp of 98.6 is a fever--that is, I only seem to get that high when I am sick. Low thyroid and adrenal function plays into this, but even with those deficiencies addressed via medication, my temp is still low. I think Rich's idea about the mitochondria in the skeletal muscles being dysfunctional is a good place to look for an explanation.

 

[LaurieL]

I read something the other day in which mentioned low body temp, I was investigating an SNP +/+ MAO-A, and they mention dopamine, or lack there of, having effects on body temp regulation.

Laurie

 

[Valentijn]

I only get up to normal when I'm feeling pretty sick. The rest of the time I'm at 96.7. Try explaining to your doc sometime that "normal" -is- a fever for you

 

[richvank]

(Btw, that page at cfs-healing.info with your writing that I'd found was a very good overview.)

I'm glad you found that helpful, Sherlock. I wrote it several years ago, before learning about the partial methylation cycle block. I still agree with most of it, but have changed my views on how to build up glutathione. I no longer favor the direct approaches, but instead have found that lifting the partial methylation cycle block is the way to restore glutathione to normal.

The internet is like an elephant--it never forgets! That can be a good thing, but when dates areen't included on articles, it isn't clear how current they are. I find myself frequently correcting my errors of the past! I'm sure that if more progress is made, I will probably be retracting some of what I'm writing these days as well. But, I guess nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[kaffiend]

I've recently started low-dose hydrocortisone therapy with good success. I've been able to cycle on four consecutive days (30-45mins), getting my heart rate up to 85-90% of max for 10 minute intervals. Despite being inactive for 18 months, I don't feel any effects of de-conditioning. My own case shows that de-conditioning is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for ALL the symptoms of ME/CFS (new ICC criteria).

My rising temperature is still just above 95 F though (94.7 F this morning). It gets up to 96-97 F throughout the day and seems to correlate with feeling more awake/alert.