"Chronic fatigue" cartoon in New Yorker.

[jeffrez]

I wasn't trying to insult you. Misunderstanding and mis-communication Mr kite.

Also, if you look back at my post I think don't said chronic fatigue syndrome, I think said neuro-immune disease.

His mid-life crisis looked alot like my life is with neuro-immune disease. I'm not bedbound but mentally impared.

Anyways, no worries. I may have got it wrong about that particular show. However, I'm convinced that hollywood, as well as the mainstream media, plays a part in propaganda to help causes of the special interests. That was my point, even if I got that greenberg show wrong.

Huh? You said he is playing a CFS "personality" (whatever that is), and that the movie was propaganda to make people with CFS look like we are "depressed and lost." Seems like strange conclusions to make when there is nothing actually about CFS in the entire movie. There also is no evidence or indication anywhere in the film that he has any kind of 'neuroimmune' illness, either.

Then I get peppered with patronizing PMs from people giving me sh!t? After getting backhanded insults like I am not "open minded" enough to see that a film that has nothing even remotely to do with CFS is actually 'propaganda' somehow secretly devised to discredit CFS?

It's a bizarro world around here.

 

[markmc20001]

Huh? You said he is playing a CFS "personality" (whatever that is), and that the movie was propaganda to make people with CFS look like we are "depressed and lost." Seems like strange conclusions to make when there is nothing actually about CFS in the entire movie. There also is no evidence or indication anywhere in the film that he has any kind of 'neuroimmune' illness, either.

Then I get peppered with patronizing PMs from people giving me sh!t? After getting backhanded insults like I am not "open minded" enough to see that a film that has nothing even remotely to do with CFS is actually 'propaganda' somehow secretly devised to discredit CFS?

It's a bizarro world around here.

My opinion is that in order to have research that fully engages authentic understanding for XMRV associated disease. The scientists and patients need to realize they are being manipulated by their own governments and special interests from all directions. Get it from the NEws media, get it from the CDC psychobabble, get it from the 0/0 negative studies. All directions.

It's all rigged.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/01/michael-bennet-complains-on-senate-floor-its-all-rigged/

 

[Bob]

I never said he drew it - I'm not sure what that comment is supposed to mean.

I meant that the cartoon should be the issue here, not the valid and honest opinions expressed in posts.

But if someone is perplexed about it, why are they arguing with those who aren't perplexed by it?

What else is the forum for, if it's not to state opinions and discuss issues, even if perplexed?

It seems like if someone doesn't understand the cartoon, he or she should be deferring to those who do.

No, because any lack of understanding or lack of clarity about the cartoon arises due to the undefined nature of the cartoon, and the undefined intentions of the cartoonist, and not due to the insight of people posting in this thread.

I agree with your point of view about the cartoonist's intentions, but it isn't clearly defined exactly what statement the cartoonist is making, and so it is open to interpretation.

Mr Kite, we are all on the same side here, and all pretty much in agreement on the important issues, as far as I can see.

But exactly what the cartoon is trying to portray is a matter of interpretation for different individuals to make.
Who cares if someone else has a different opinion about what the cartoon is saying? It's not a big deal.

If people can't express their opinions freely on the forum without being asked (in a hostile manner) why they are posting on the forum, and effectively asked to leave the forum, then people aren't going to come here to discuss the cartoon. Which kind of defeats the purpose of this thread.

 

[jeffrez]

I meant that the cartoon should be the issue here, not the valid and honest opinions expressed in posts.



What else is the forum for, if it's not to state opinions and discuss issues, even if perplexed?



No, because any lack of understanding or lack of clarity about the cartoon arises due to the undefined nature of the cartoon, and the undefined intentions of the cartoonist, and not due to the insight of people posting in this thread.

I agree with your point of view about the cartoonist's intentions, but it isn't clearly defined exactly what statement the cartoonist is making, and so it is open to interpretation.

Mr Kite, we are all on the same side here, and all pretty much in agreement on the important issues, as far as I can see.

But exactly what the cartoon is trying to portray is a matter of interpretation for different individuals to make.
Who cares if someone else has a different opinion about what the cartoon is saying? It's not a big deal.

If people can't express their opinions freely on the forum without being asked why they are posting on the forum in a hostile manner, and effectively asked to leave the forum, then people aren't going to come here to discuss the cartoon. Which kind of defeats the purpose of this thread.

All of what you said is a little bit (actually a lot) different than claiming the cartoon isn't about CFS, when that's actually in the title of the cartoon - a cartoon moreover that depicts a person complaining of CFS symptoms. What do you think it's about, cancer?

I never said anyone couldn't express their opinion, and I never asked anyone to "leave the forum." Where you are getting this bullsh!t is beyond me. In fact, I explicitly said that the person who claimed there wasn't anything in it that referred to CFS is free to think whatever they want about it, however wrong they may be.

Because contrary to how you try to depict it here, the person wasn't 'perplexed' about the cartoon, the person was certain it had nothing to do with CFS at all. Which is an opinion that's obviously divorced from reality, but if someone wants to believe that, that's up to them. But in that case, I am also free to express my opinion, right? Whatever that might be, and without getting a bunch of bullsh!t from you about it, just like you are hypocritically complaining to me about. So spare me your hypocritical little "lectures." I don't need them, either here or in your arrogant, patronising PMs.


P.S. If you make one more post making me and/or my rhetorical style the subject of the thread instead of making the cartoon or actual topic the subject, as it properly should be, I'll report you for harassment. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. AFAIK, this forum has an ignore feature. That's what it's for, to ignore people whose posts you don't want to read. I don't come here to be lectured to.

 

[Nielk]

Let's get back to the cartoon:

I did some research on the cartoonist -

Bruce Eric Kaplan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bruce Eric Kaplan, known as BEK, is an American cartoonist whose single-panel cartoons frequently appear in The New Yorker. His cartoons are known for their signature simplistic style and often dark humor. Kaplan is also a screenwriter and has worked on Seinfeld and on Six Feet Under. He graduated from Wesleyan University and studied there with Professor Jeanine Basinger.
Kaplan joined the crew of Six Feet Under during the first season in 2001 as a supervising producer. He scripted two episodes of the first season "The Foot" and "The New Person". He was promoted to co-executive producer for the second season in 2002 and wrote a further two episodes "The Invisible Woman" and "The Secret". He remained a co-executive producer for the third season in 2003 and wrote a further episode entitled "The Trap". He was promoted to executive producer for the fourth season in 2004 and wrote another episode "The Dare". He served as executive producer during the fifth and final season and wrote his last episode "The Silence". Kaplan wrote seven episodes in total for the series.

This is no lightweight.
He has books published with his cartoons out there.

He is known for his dark humor, yet no one that I have shown this cartoon to gets it.
What's up with this.

What bothers me the most is that people are buying this cartoon as artwork and stationary?

 

[markmc20001]

Be interesting to know if this particular Cartoon was his OWN idea entirely, or where he got the inspiration from.

 

[carolinetanderson]

I don't think I even get the wording of the cartoon. "My stomach would hurt but I'm too tired?" Too tired for what? To go to the bathroom? Feel the stomach pain? Even realize that her stomach is hurting?. What does being tired have to do with a stomach ache? Would she feel a stomach ache if she wasn't tired.? I don't get it...

 

[Mij]

If you are referring to my insight, I never said that I wasn't perplexed by the cartoon. I said I didn't see any references to CFS. That's MY take. I've heard the phrase "chronic fatigue" used to describe how one feels with NO relationship to CFS whatsoever.

I am in reality, btw, just not yours.

 

[Esther12]

What does being tired have to do with a stomach ache?

That's the joke imo.

It can either be:

1) People are so debilitated by their illness that it prevents them from recognising their own symptoms.

or

2) People winge so much about their imaginary symptoms that they don't know which one to prioritise.

Or something else. I really don't know, but I'm a bit surprised this thread got so heated though.

 

[Nielk]

I don't think I even get the wording of the cartoon. "My stomach would hurt but I'm too tired?" Too tired for what? To go to the bathroom? Feel the stomach pain? Even realize that her stomach is hurting?. What does being tired have to do with a stomach ache? Would she feel a stomach ache if she wasn't tired.? I don't get it...

I got a good laugh reading your post. It's like an either/or situation. There is the chronic fatigue issue and the stomach ache issue and the two cannot meet in the woman laying on the couch. She is too tired - ergo she cannot have a stomach ache?

 

[jeffrez]

If you are referring to my insight, I never said that I wasn't perplexed by the cartoon. I said I didn't see any references to CFS. That's MY take. I've heard the phrase "chronic fatigue" used to describe how one feels with NO relationship to CFS whatsoever.

I am in reality, btw, just not yours.

That's for sure. Not in anyone else's, either, it appears. If you didn't see any references to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, you weren't looking very closely. It's in the actual title.

 

[jeffrez]

I don't think I even get the wording of the cartoon. "My stomach would hurt but I'm too tired?" Too tired for what? To go to the bathroom? Feel the stomach pain? Even realize that her stomach is hurting?. What does being tired have to do with a stomach ache? Would she feel a stomach ache if she wasn't tired.? I don't get it...

It has to do with Irritable Bowel Syndrome. It's in the title. It's not really a difficult concept. The author is making fun of people with CFS and IBS.

 

[WillowJ]

I think it's pretty plain (and even if it weren't, the lay world [and most of the medical world, social services, etc. as well] doesn't see the difference between "chronic fatigue" and "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" so I don't see that it makes any difference... and the New Yorker shouldn't be mocking people with CF either--many of those people have physiological health issues that their doctors are too prejudiced, too lazy, or too stressed and busy to try to find out the cause of, and many of them are undiagnosed ME/CFS anyway as 90% of us lack a diagnosis), but being that the cartoon header split up the title of CFS, there is room for interpretation.

 

[Bob]

If it's interpreted another way, then she could be saying that she is so ill with CFS, that her stomach pain pales into insignificance, in which case the cartoon is not such an insult.
This is partly why I found it so confusing.

I'm still convinced that it's designed to be an insult to our patient communities though.

 

[jeffrez]

I think it's pretty plain (and even if it weren't, the lay world [and most of the medical world, social services, etc. as well] doesn't see the difference between "chronic fatigue" and "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" so I don't see that it makes any difference... and the New Yorker shouldn't be mocking people with CF either--many of those people have physiological health issues that their doctors are too prejudiced, too lazy, or too stressed and busy to try to find out the cause of, and many of them are undiagnosed ME/CFS anyway as 90% of us lack a diagnosis), but being that the cartoon header split up the title of CFS, there is room for interpretation.

Agree with the first part, but it doesn't really matter how one 'interprets' it. As you noted, the general public doesn't make those distinctions. It's the same thing to them. Even if it did matter, the fact that he uses hyphens, as I noted already, creates the impression of referring to a "Syndrome" (which is also in the title). Why else would one use a hyphen in that situation? People don't go around saying, "I really have a lot of Chronic-Fatigue lately." Using the hyphen medicalizes the term in the public's mind, the same way he used it in Irritable-Bowel (or like in Epstein-Barr, which I'm half surprised he didn't thrown in also).

 

[WillowJ]

Look, I agree with you and Bob that the cartoon is, in all likelihood, intended to mock people with ME/CFS and IBS (and, by extension, other "MUS"). I just don't think it's fair or kind, or helpful to us or our cause, to be suggesting that people who disagree with our assessment about this particular cartoon, should not come to this thread or are not connected to reality. That's all.

best,
WillowJ

 

[Bob]

New Yorker Cartoonist Syndrome



Well, I have some spare time, so I've done my own stupid cartoon, entitled "New Yorker Cartoonist Syndrome".
(OK, I know I'm not a good artist or cartoonist! I just did it for fun!)

 

[Undisclosed]

View attachment 5286Well, I have some spare time, so I've done my own stupid cartoon, entitled "New Yorker Cartoonist Syndrome".
(Oh, I know I'm not a good artist or cartoonist! I just did it for fun!)

That's a funny cartoon, you should send it in to the New Yorker, you could sell large prints of it and notepaper. I don't think the actual New Yorker cartoon is funny, not even mildly amusing. I am sure they will sell two large prints of it though -- one to Bill Reeves, the other to Simon Wessley.

 

[Boule de feu]

How can one post after such a piece of art?

I remember watching this episode of House (mark mc) I remember also feeling awkward about it. What if my friends had seen it? What a good laugh they would have had... Telling jokes at my expense. I remember feeling sick to my stomach. Oops. Wait. No. That was probably due to my IBS. Pffff!

 

[jeffrez]

Look, I agree with you and Bob that the cartoon is, in all likelihood, intended to mock people with ME/CFS and IBS (and, by extension, other "MUS"). I just don't think it's fair or kind, or helpful to us or our cause, to be suggesting that people who disagree with our assessment about this particular cartoon, should not come to this thread or are not connected to reality. That's all.

best,
WillowJ

As the saying goes, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, but everyone is not entitled to his or her own facts. And the fact is it's a cartoon about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. One can have any opinion one wants about whether one believes it's funny, hurtful, stupid, effective, true, false, or any other assessment, as you call it, but one can't say it's not about CFS (and retain any credibility, at least). It mentions CFS in the title and is indisputably referring to CFS. Saying it's not about CFS is like saying Hamlet isn't about a Danish prince. It's a little bit of a ridiculous statement, and very easily refuted in either case.