Selenium helping nerve pain/mood? Also: why does hot water help bring relief from ME?

[SilverbladeTE]

Found by accident mostly, that selenium (as in food supplement type) has really helped me in last couple of weeks

1) had ME/CFS for about 16 years, "medium severity" I'd say
currently on (prescribed) testosterone via nebido injections (due to pituitary not producing testosterone controlling hormone), Tylex and Gabapanetin (pain)

2) Exploring possibility that having a mouth full of amalgam fillings, and having lived next to one of the world's biggest and most polluting steelworks, I thought I'd try selenium, as it's an antidote for mercury and several other heavy metal poisons
however, selenium itself is extremely toxic, so just stuck to the standard single tablet per day.
it seemed ot help, however, this year I have been extremely ill by comparison to prior year, probably because UK has had such terribly cold weather, which makes me worse, and prior year was very warm.

So I forgot to take the selenium, my health etc was worse.

3) Around week or two afore Christmas I started taking selenium again
and I accidentally took one tablet too many
next day I felt much better, at least in regards to mood.

So last couple of weeks I've been taking two or three selenium tablets a day, and noticed a very good improvement in some aspects of my experience and mood

I do not know if it is the ME/CFS itself, or the testosterone or something else, but over past few years I have found that I have had increasing nerve pain, and discomfort.
Best way I can describe it is like this:

a) A wind up clockwork key inserted into base of neck, turned tighter and tigher, winding you until you feel like you will snap
I do not mean a LITERAL key, but merely to explain the horrible sensation of being wound up like a spring about to snap in both terms of mood and nerves, ick!

b) sensation like "nails scratching down a blackboard", but down back of my brain and rearwards/upper back, down the nerves.


the selenium seems ot have calmed those effects, making my mood much better, as they were making me extremely irritable
A shower/bath also helps those, to an extenet but not for such duration and "style" (can't explain it easily)


Also, due to circumstances I have had to change from a bath to a shower in my home, and while showers do certianly help reduce the muscle pain and discomfort, they aren't as good as a bath.
I also often dip/wash my hands in hot water, as they, along with my upper arms, are especially painful. I suspect this is because I use the computer so much.
Feels like I've been punching a brick wall

But why does hot water reduce the pain/discomfort from ME/CFS so much??

 

[boomer3]

Silverblade, do you know the brand of selenium you use. Do you think it makes a difference? Thanks.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Boomer3,
oh it's just generic stuff...
*goes checks*
from NATURES BEST
with also vitamins A C and E

lol, well it is "ace" to me

 

[illsince1977]

Also, due to circumstances I have had to change from a bath to a shower in my home, and while showers do certianly help reduce the muscle pain and discomfort, they aren't as good as a bath.
I also often dip/wash my hands in hot water, as they, along with my upper arms, are especially painful. I suspect this is because I use the computer so much.
Feels like I've been punching a brick wall

But why does hot water reduce the pain/discomfort from ME/CFS so much??

I don't know, but nothing feels as good to me as a hot shower (as opposed to a hot bath). Despite the difficulties involved with standing due to a severe lack of energy -at least lack of energy is how I interpret it; I feel better (i.e. more energetic) under the hot running water. When I'm going through "better" periods when I'm more functional (not bedridden) nothing feels as good as swimming. There's something about water for me. Does anyone else find water therapeutic? Anyone know why? There must be some kind of neurological effect, I would think.

 

[rwac]

Actually selenium is a vital component of Glutathione Peroxidase (GPx) which recycles glutathione which we CFS folks are short of.
Have you tried taking MethylSelenoCysteine instead ?
It's the form that's easiest to use in GPx, and I find this form to be the most effective for me.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

illsince1977
I remember there was one study at least on ME/CFS and hot water/bathing etc that iirc, shwoed a veyr marked benefit, at least in comfort levels fo rnealry all ME/CFS folk

could be, like rheumatism, hot water soothes an inflammation process for us??

Rwac
hm, interesting never knew that!
no not taken much in way of anything as I want a tested ptrescribed CURE or treatment, ya know? sigh
Ginseng I found made me a lto worse, but hey it affects the heart/blood pressure so not suprising
Apples (eating them) I found helped a bit but I've went of them
hot baths/showers helped
sugary stuff worsens me, but I have a sweet tooth, lol

 

[rwac]

I find that aggressively supplementing helps my body tolerate the cures.

Apple juice is good stuff, it's known to be help with oxidative stress.

Things like immunovir and cycloferon might be a good treatment, but you have to get your body in order first, help the mineral deficiencies, methylation support, etc.

 

[carol]

Hi there. I am very lucky to have a jaccuzzi, ( ebay). It is the one thing I could not give up. When the pain starts I get in it and the pain nearly always eases after an hour. My spinal pain is intense between the shoulder blades like a hot hard ball pressing in and a steel band around my chest held so tight. Plus I get a horrible sensation down the left side like spiders crawling under my skin. I have other nasty pains but those two are the worst. My jaccuzzi is my lifeline. I have often wondered why it works. I thought it was just me that had this reaction. My sister in law has MS and she has the opposite reaction to hot water, it exacerbates her symptoms.

 

[August59]

SilverbladeTE - What is the dosage of the selenium that you are taking? I think 200 mcg is the RDA, but if someone is not getting enough or is deficient it may be that more is needed. Unfortunately, blood test are not a very good way to test for minerals and I have my doubts about the accuracy of hair and saliva for minerals.

If it is working for you I recommend that you at least consult with your physician to let him know you are taking it.

 

[justy]

SilverbladeTE - What is the dosage of the selenium that you are taking? I think 200 mcg is the RDA, but if someone is not getting enough or is deficient it may be that more is needed. Unfortunately, blood test are not a very good way to test for minerals and I have my doubts about the accuracy of hair and saliva for minerals.

If it is working for you I recommend that you at least consult with your physician to let him know you are taking it.

I find selenium with Vitamin C very useful, i think as said earlier it raises Glutathione, especially in conjunction with Vitamin C - mine was very low on blood test. However Selenium shouldnt be taken in high doses for mopre than three months - it can be very, very toxic, you shouldnt really go over the RDA.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

yeah it's 200 mcg per tablet, from reading up, safe max dose is 400mcg per day
taking two/day (so that's 400) makes life vastly more bearable!

I do understad the toxicity but many folk have taken higher doses for years as it was an "in thing" 15+ years ago iirc, lol
(not in ME community just amongst oh, some folks in "higher society")

it should bind to some extent though to the mercury vapour absorbed from all my amalgam fillings, hehe

 

[richvank]

Hi, SilverbladeTE.

It's interesting to hear about your favorable response to selenium supplementation.

It's true that selenium forms a very stable intermetallic compound with mercury. In fact, quite a few marine animals and marine birds utilize this as a means of protection from mercury toxicity. They eat seaweed, which is rich in selenium, and that counters the mercury that is present in fish, which they also eat.

I don't think anyone has done a controlled study of taking elevated dosages of selenium to counter a high body burden of mercury. I think it's an interesting idea, but I think it would need to be studied carefully. For one thing, as noted, selenium does exhibit toxicity itself at high enough dosages, though based on anecdotal accounts I've received, the upper limit dose set by the Institute of Medicine in the U.S. may be conservative. If a person had a high body burden of mercury, it would seem that quite a lot of the selenium taken in would be tied up by the mercury, and would no longer be bioavailable and hence could not have toxic effects.

Another issue would be whether there would be a downside to depositing intermetallic selenium-mercury compound in the body. Presumably a lot of it would be in the kidneys, because that's where mercury normally concentrates (in addition to the brain, if the mercury was methylmercury, as from fish, or ethylmercury, as from the thimerosol in vaccines).

I once had a conversation with Dr. David Quig of Doctor's Data Lab about this at a DAN! conference. He has specialized in mercury toxicity and detox. He told me that he would not recommend this approach for a baby with autism, because of the unknown effects I've discussed. However, he said that in an old man (maybe he meant me!) he might consider it, if there was a big problem with mercury toxicity! I've continued to wonder how well this would work, but I don't feel that I can recommend it, because of the unknowns.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[valentinelynx]

Baths, hot baths: I'm addicted to them. Limit myself to one per day.
Years ago, when still well, I rediscovered baths when living in an apartment that had no shower. Then, when I got sick, I found taking a shower so drained my energy that it would be the first and last thing I'd do all day. For over ten years, then, I have to have a hot bath before bed to be able to sleep well. I usually add Epsom Salts. I think the bath helps with: a. temperature regulation (without it I am too cold when I go to bed), and b. muscle relaxation (kicks the pain down quite a bit) which also promotes sleep.
The bath is often the best part of my day. I read a novel, and sometimes stay there for 2 hours.
And, I like my baths, HOT. Weird, because I'm so sensitive to heat that I can't hold a Starbucks cup without a sleeve.