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From the 1st annual XMRV conference

acer2000

Senior Member
Messages
818
If Huber thinks its contamination, why are the "CFS" samples contaminated at a much higher rate than the controls? As a layperson, I'd think that if contamination was the cause for the positives, then they'd find it at the same rate in both cohorts? It doesn't seem like contamination can select for "sick" people, esp in blinded studies? They are doing the same lab tests on both controls and patients...

Its a legitimate question.
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
I personally do think it is a good idea to let government people etc know that we dont want the CFS/ME stuff in Fauci's hands... now's our chance to be outting those old ones who did us wrong.. and calling for new people to be dealing with us. We should be doing it now (as after all the XMRV may turn out not to be caustive and we may need some open minded ones high up on our side then). The CFS/ME community shouldnt be having to deal with closed minded ones who have ignored our desperate cries for past 10-25 years.

Guess with Lipkin.. we just will have to sit back and hope he's serious about wanting to find it and help us.

Fauci is/was a bigwig relying on the info provided by his subordinates. We can certainly be upset with him for not looking into ME/CFS more thoroughly, but that is past. Since he seems to be taking us seriously now, I think I'd avoid making trouble for him at this point. Not all the bad guys are willing to change position as the information changes, so I'm willing to see what he does from here on. In other words, this may not be a good time to "out" him as a bad guy. Careful watching, yes. Taking out, probably not.
 

pictureofhealth

XMRV - L'Agent du Jour
Messages
534
Location
Europe
This isn't just an accusation toward the WPI bear in mind. Huber has essentially suggested that the Ruscetti's, Silverman and Klein at the NCI, the CC & now Lo/Alter at NIH/FDA have false positives due to contamination, by making these comments. That's a lot of accusations of bad science toward some pretty high profile researchers. Anyway, the PNAS paper specifically took steps to prove no contamination - which I thought had been accepted/proven now.
 

pine108kell

Senior Member
Messages
146
If Huber thinks its contamination, why are the "CFS" samples contaminated at a much higher rate than the controls? As a layperson, I'd think that if contamination was the cause for the positives, then they'd find it at the same rate in both cohorts? It doesn't seem like contamination can select for "sick" people, esp in blinded studies? They are doing the same lab tests on both controls and patients...

Its a legitimate question.

That's what I have been thinking and posted before. Since I don't know exact protocols, I can't be sure of the logic but sure makes sense to me. It would be a strange pattern of contamination--at least from my limited knowledge. I wish someone that knew more could address this.
 

Sam Carter

Guest
Messages
435
Brigitte Huber is on a DVD (InvestinME Conference video 2010).

She simply refused to listen to Dr Judy Mikovits explaining on a 'round table session'... Somewhat infuriating for the viewer I can tell you.

...

Even after hearing this if they are all positive, Brigitte will say the same thing. Maybe the US military can use Brigitte as a humane WMD? She could infuriate the enemy to death, with no collateral damage.

Not infuriating for this viewer. Brigitte Huber was not given the opportunity during the round table discussion to report her findings.

Even after hearing this if they are all positive, Brigitte will say the same thing.
Science is difficult and complex and confounding.

She could infuriate the enemy to death
Don't make cheap jibes at the expense of a gifted researcher.
 

pine108kell

Senior Member
Messages
146
Not infuriating for this viewer. Brigitte Huber was not given the opportunity during the round table discussion to report her findings.

Science is difficult and complex and confounding.

Don't make cheap jibes at the expense of a gifted researcher.

Thanks for clearing up what is really going on.
 

Bob

Senior Member
Messages
16,455
Location
England (south coast)
This isn't just an accusation toward the WPI bear in mind. Huber has essentially suggested that the Ruscetti's, Silverman and Klein at the NCI, the CC & now Lo/Alter at NIH/FDA have false positives due to contamination, by making these comments. That's a lot of accusations of bad science toward some pretty high profile researchers. Anyway, the PNAS paper specifically took steps to prove no contamination - which I thought had been accepted/proven now.

She's just reporting her research... Even negative studies can be helpful in understanding the process of finding HMRV's...
But I think we can safely ignore Hubers negative findings like everyone at the conference will... The important thing at this stage is who can find the viruses, and how.
So, I personally don't think we need to feel antagonised by Brigitte Huber, although I am surprised that she is persisting in presenting her negative study... but that scientific ego for you!


That's what I have been thinking and posted before. Since I don't know exact protocols, I can't be sure of the logic but sure makes sense to me. It would be a strange pattern of contamination--at least from my limited knowledge. I wish someone that knew more could address this.

Just because Huber's own lab is contaminated, it doesn't mean that anyone else's lab is contaminated.
Contamination is a non-issue for the Science and PNAS studies... Alter, Lo and Mikovits know that, so we don't need to worry about Huber's contaminated lab.
 

Sunshine

Senior Member
Messages
208
Location
UK
Not infuriating for this viewer. Brigitte Huber was not given the opportunity during the round table discussion to report her findings.

Don't make cheap jibes at the expense of a gifted researcher.


If you would like to explain how human antibodies to XMRV are detected in CFS patients, please go ahead?
(Antibodies are impossible to be detected in human blood to a contaminant though, so don't go ahead actually).

Perhaps you are more learned than Switzer from the CDC who designed and built his own test for Mikovits to pass, which she did.

Yup, Sam from Phoenix Rising knows more than the CDC about contamination, and believes that culture cell growth and antibodies are a sign of contamination in CFS patients.

Which is the reverse of what Cort has told us about. So you know more than Cort as well, on his own forum. Samantha, you are a superstar!!!

P.S Please photograph your copy of the DVD where you say Brigitte wasn't given a chance to speak at the investinME conference (which is a cheap jibe and the gifted film maker who recorded it for CFS patients to watch), I can and will upload it. Can you? If you cannot, it appears you may be confused over what the DVD is, and its contents. and thus probably shouldn't speak any more on the matter if you are not in ownership of the film, and thus cannot support your claims that anyone else who's watched the video knows are invalid.
 

cfsme23

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
England
I can make cheap jibes all I like, it's my right as it's yours to be in denial.

You go girl...I love these days when tensions are heightened...almost makes this illness worthwile, like a soap opera that's being lived out in the real world...it's going to make a great movie one day!!!
 

julius

Watchoo lookin' at?
Messages
785
Location
Canada
Guys, this is gonna get out of control. Please stop.

I really want to follow this thread.